JesusWalk Bible Study Forum: Q4. Lot and His Daughters - JesusWalk Bible Study Forum

Q4. (19:30-38) Why did Lot's daughters turn to incest? What does this tell us about their values? About their faith? Why does Lot turn to intoxication? What does this incident tell us about his faith? His hope? His influence? His choice of residence? What lessons should we learn from this story?

they wanted children but had insufficient faith to beleive in God for children,Lot drank to deal with his situation instead of trusting God

Q4. (19:30-38) Why did Lot's daughters turn to incest? What does this tell us about their values? About their faith? Why does Lot turn to intoxication? What does this incident tell us about his faith? His hope? His influence? His choice of residence? What lessons should we learn from this story?


They did it to have children and continue to have a family of their own. Nothing wrong in their thinking. Only the means adopted were wrong, as the saying goes, the ends don't justify the means. This action of thiers meant that they didn't have any moral values. Thier faith was non existant. Because the city itself didn't have any moral values. They grew up in such a place. We can't find fault with their thinking. Lot turns to drinking to drown out his sorrows. He has lost everything and finds no reason to enjoy life. All because of wrong decisions made right from the day of separation from Abraham. How terrible.

This sordid incident has a lot to teach us as family. We have to make the decisions depending on the Holy Spirit's guidance. Where we decide to live, what schools we send our children to, which church we go to, the parties we attend and the friends we have. All these affect the family immediately. We should be very careful in these matters if we want to really care for our family. In essence, the Holy Spirit should be our guide and helpmeet.

Q4. (19:30-38) Why did Lot's daughters turn to incest? What does this tell us about their values? About their faith? Why does Lot turn to intoxication? What does this incident tell us about his faith? His hope? His influence? His choice of residence? What lessons should we learn from this story?

They had no husbands or apparently any chance of one, for they lived in a desolate country in a cave. They apparently wanted children so badly that they used their father in this evil way.
They had no religious values, since they did not care about the fact that they were sinning in this way. Their faith? In what? They cared only about themselves, no one else--not their father nor the children the professed to want.
Lot felt alone and could not see any way out of his predicament. Why didn't he go to Abraham? Perhaps he was ashamed--who knows?
Apparently, his faith was not in God. He had been in Sodom long enough to know that the city was full of evil, even if he didn't participate in it. Yet he chose to remain there. He seemed to have no hope for a decent future.
He chose Sodom for a place to live, perhaps because it seemed full of life and music. No matter that the life and music was counter to the belief he had shared with Abraham. Soon, apparently, although he knew this was against God's law, he felt comfortable in it and just pushed God out of his life.
His influence on his daughters caused them to follow the evil so rampant there.
The last thing we want to do is be an evil example for our children and for others who touch our lives! But, if we do not fight evil and condone it by not speaking up, and/or getting out of the situation, we are the same as saying it is okay. Then others may come to believe in this too. Sad.

Pastor Ralph, on Oct 19 2004, 07:19 AM, said:

I deleted the whole message I just posted not to long ago. I am sorry. I got caught up in my own pain. Thank You CCS for your compassion. I fell out of line once again as the pain of remembering the pain over took me in a fit of rage. I have always denied myself the right to get angry and would stuff it and forget about it, and move on. I am thankful to God for reminding me though because I never gave it to Him, or asked for His help, I just got mad at Him and mad at the world. God has forgiven me and comforts me this morning, as everyday I lean on Him, and so now I let it go for real and am healed of those deep inner wounds because Jesus died that I might be saved, delivered, & healed. Thank You Jesus!!! I won't forget again though, so as to not become indifferent to the suffering all around us, in which I haven't on that anyway. I don't ever want to be comfortable with any part of my sin at any time.

My answer to these questions are posted in CCS responce as well as the others. The only thing I can add to what I learned is to REPENT and keep on REPENTING. And I didn't just learn it, but guess I need the reminder once in a while. Hallelujah!!!

This post has been edited by PressThrough: 10 November 2004 - 04:27 PM

Q4. (19:30-38) Why did Lot's daughters turn to incest? What does this tell us about their values? About their faith? Why does Lot turn to intoxication? What does this incident tell us about his faith? His hope? His influence? His choice of residence? What lessons should we learn from this story?

I see this story as an insight to how we are today. For many of us "Christianity" is something we put on on Wednesday night and Sunday's and then forget about the rest of the week. Oh we have our quiet time and we do the outward signs, but we must reflect, is it really a part of essence, our life, our being, our very breath. For most of us I think not. We break the Bible, the Word down and pick and choose which application we want to use.

So to with Lot's daughters. It never says that Lot and his daughters have great faith or obedience or walking with God -- it seems that everything Lot did, had a lot of the World's Ways in them. Therefore, when it came to time of choices, they unfortunately were poor ones, that caused grave consequences.

That is how it is for us today - - the more we study the Word, pray and apply that Word and Wisdom - - the closer we grow to God because we get to know Him better and know His ways - - so we can walk in His steps.

This question has caused me to reevaluate where my walk is and by the power of my Lord, I am going to pray to the Spirit within me - - that God said would cause me to walk in His ways!

Pastor Ralph, on Oct 19 2004, 07:19 AM, said:

Q4. (19:30-38) Why did Lot's daughters turn to incest?
They were fearful that they would loose their family line so they took matters into their own hands instead of going to God with their problem.

What does this tell us about their values?
Worldly

About their faith?
Weak

Why does Lot turn to intoxication?
Lot's wealth -- his flocks and herds -- have been destroyed along with Sodom. He is now lives in fear and retreats to a cave, he hasn’t any friends or dowry or status to arrange marriages for his daughters. He has lost his hope and faith so he turns to wine to console himself.

What does this incident tell us about his faith?
Diminished.

His hope?
Diminished

His influence?
Diminished

His choice of residence?
Isolation

What lessons should we learn from this story?
God allows us to have the freedom to make our own choices, but when we do He also allows us to face the consequences of them. It’s best to seek the Lords direction in all that we do and wait on Him to reveal the way. Not always an easy thing to do, but we must discipline ourselves to go to the Lord with our past, present and future; for our healing, wisdom and guidance. We don’t always understand his ways but they are the best in the end and they always work out for the good for those who love HIm.

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Lot's daughters turned to incest because of the kind of environment where they had been living. They had the values that were prominent in Sodom and they evidently had no faith in the true and living GOD. The Bible does not tell us they were born in Sodom, but they could have been and since the Bible does read in Genesis 13:13 that "the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.," they were reared in a city full of wickedness.

Lot turned to intoxication because he was far from the LORD and he had lost everything including his wife. He didn't have faith in the LORD and he had no hope for his future. Even when he was in Sodom he had no influence that would cause anyone to want to know the LORD.

He should have gone to the town where the angels told him to go instead of where he wanted to go.

We should learn from this story that we should seek the LORD's direction in our lives and strive to walk in fellowship and obedience with Him and not let our surroundings influence us.

In a misguided effort Lot’s daughters devised a deceptive plan which required Lot to be drunk. There’s no indication that Lot’s daughters discussed their concern with the father. Their faith—or lack thereof—had been (mis)shaped through years of living in Sodom. Sodom's corruption had affected Lot as well, and his influence upon his daughters (in Sodom, Lot had offered his daughters’ virginity to those gathered outside his door to seeking sexual pleasure with his visitors).

Although their lives had been spared by God, they chose to take it upon themselves to preserve the family line. In some ways their actions are reminiscent of Abraham and Sarah’s scheme to provide an heir through Hagar. In desperate circumstances, we take desperate measures, when we go about life with God.

Lot’s wealth was destroyed with Sodom, along with his wife, and his sons-in-law. From his mountain retreat he could look back at the smoldering remains of his life. I’m sure he felt abandoned—and his feelings of helplessness probably contributed to his intoxication. How much easier it is to escape the pain of life with drugs and alcohol. [NOT !]

I’m not sure why Lot didn’t seek out Abraham after he fled Sodom. Perhaps he was embarrassed. Abraham had rescued him once, and now he hesitated to seek Abraham’s helping hand (Lot didn’t understand that Abraham has rescued him from Sodom). Interestingly, Abraham’s faith assured him that Lot had escaped form Sodom even as he watched the dense smoke rising from the land.

Lot’s failure in that cave was far more of his own making than most of us would like to admit. It was not just that his daughters had learned so much sin in Sodom—they were still virgins you will recall. The real problem was not with Sodom, but with Lot. His daughters simply carried out that which they had learned from their own father. These same two girls stood inside the door as they overheard those words from their father.

Now, behold, I have two daughters who have not had relations with man; please let me bring them out to you, and do to them whatever you like; only do nothing to these men, inasmuch as they have come under the shelter of my roof (Genesis 19:8).

From Lot, his two daughters learned that morality must sometimes be sacrificed to practicality. Lot was willing to turn over his own daughters (who were as yet sexually pure, not corrupted by the sins of Sodom) to the Sodomites instead of two strangers. They learned from Lot that morality must sometimes be set aside in emergencies. Once they saw their father’s plight (and their own) as an emergency, incest was no longer a moral problem, for morality must yield to practicality in emergencies.

Many of us are greatly concerned about the world in which our children live. The temptations are infinitely greater. But in our concern for what is happening in the cities, let us not think we can save our children by restricting them to a cave. For in the cave, they are still being influenced by us. Let us be mindful from the tragedy which occurred in Lot’s family that many of the sins of our children are not learned from the world, but from the fathers.

Lot determined to ‘get away from it all.’ Away from the city and its wickedness. Away from the world. Lot sought safety in a cave rather than a city. Lot, the carnal Christian is passive and pathetic. In Lot’s shoes we might have concurred with his decision to forsake the city for a cave. Lot was finally ready to deal with worldliness. He did so by departing from the world. The only problem with this was that while Lot was out of Sodom, Sodom was not out of Lot. Monasticism has never been the solution to materialism; seclusion is no substitute for sanctification. The world without is not nearly so plaguing as the world within.

The answer to faith, hope and influence, I believe must be found in the differences between Lot and Abraham. Lot, at best, was halfhearted in his relationship with God. Abraham had a growing intimacy, evidenced by his intercession for Lot. Lot cared mostly for himself, even to the point of sacrificing his daughters. Abraham cared more for others, evidenced by his generosity in giving Lot the choice of the land and in interceding with God for Lot’s deliverance. Lot was a man who failed to learn from divine discipline. When he moved to Sodom and then was kidnapped, he returned to the same place without any apparent change in action or attitude. Abraham made many mistakes (sins), but he learned from them. Lot was a man who lived only for the present, while Abraham was a stranger and a pilgrim on the earth. He chose to do without many earthly pleasures for the joys of greater and more lasting blessings from God.

May God help us to live in the world without becoming a part of it, or it a part of us. As the writer in the Proverbs expressed it:

The house of the wicked will be destroyed, but the tent of the upright will flourish ( Proverbs 14:11).

Wy did Lots daughters turn to incest? What does this tell us about their values? About their faith? Why does Lot turn to intoxication? What does this tell us about his faith? His hope? His influence? Choice of residence? What lessons should we learn from this story?

Lots daughters turned to incest because they wanted children and didn't trust God to supply all their needs or wants. What kind of faith would I have with a dad who was willing to send me out to a pack of wolves to do with me as they wanted. I don't think they felt valued or were taught that. I think Sodom and Lot's values affected their faith. Frankly I have a lot of sympathy for them. What they did was disgusting to me but in those days and raised in that culture what would you expect. Look at our culture with all the knowledge of the Word and we have the Holy Spirit. Doesn't seem a whole lot better to me.
Why did Lot turn to intoxication? It seems Lot's relationship with the Lord was not as important as all the wordly goods he left behind plus compound that with the loss of his wife, two complaining daughters who were left with a probably nonexistant father and maybe a propensity to drink anyway. And it is the easy and temporary way out of your problems. After all I'm sure their was a lot of that going on in Sodom and that Lot had at this time become rather immersed in the culture of Sodom. Although he knew it was filled with perversion he choose to stay and raise his daughters in this environment. J Vernon McGee says "he lost everything except his own soul". I hope in all this Lot became closer to the Lord.
I believe God has all our needs planned for us when we just listen. Lot should have gone to the place the angels told him to flee to. To often we don't trust God to meet our needs and we are to willing to just sweep sin under the carpet rather than confront when we need. I am just as guilty in many of these things. I am actually wondering if Lot actually pouted when he asked to go to Zoar. Can't you just see him escaping in his little velour suit. Too often I am so used to my comfort and when things go wrong instead of running to God and praising Him for His mercy and thanking Him for the privilege of worshipping Him through the gift of His Son and my eternal savation I come pouting and complaining.
What lessons should we learn from this story.? LOVE the Lord your God with all your heart mind and strength for He is worthy and He is merciful and listen to Him! Live as a warrior for God for we are in a spiritual war and Satan roams as lion seeking whom He can devour. Have sympathy on those lost in sin and pray for them that God would reveal the truth to them. Be willing to suffer for the Lord instead of just turning on your color tv set. I'm sure Sodom had its equivalent of the color tv set. Live your life in a way that is pleasing to Him so you don't end up loosing it like they did. You may loose it anyway but at least you stand for Him.
I have a long ways to go. I have found mysellf complaining lately about some of my circumstances. I think it is honorable to stand up under hardship and give God the sacrifice of praise of which He is so worthy.
May the God of grace and mercy be with each of us and may we live live lives that shine as lights for Him. May His name be glorified in each of you by the lives you live.
Lets pray for each other. We are family.
God Bless!
Jen
Number6:24-26

Lot's daughters turned to incest to preserve their family line. This tells us that their value lied in their lineage. That their faith was little. Lot turns to intoxication to numb his conscience to what he knew was wrong. This incident tell us about his faith that he had little to none. His hope was nonexistant. His influence gone. His choice of residence earthly. Lessons we should learn from this story are that if we trust God that He will restore what is lost, to not take matters into our own hands, and that we reap what we sow.

Good answers. The only thing I can add is an observation. Abraham's impatience with God's plan led to Ishmael and the Arab nations. Lot's daughter's faithlessness and immorality led to enemies of Israel as well. This should inspire us to get it right, or else we only create more problems for ourselves. That God foreknew all of this and allowed it out of love for those he had a covenant with, being that He is love, gives me great hope and patience. We are all brothers. It's unfortunate we can't get along.

We don't have to understand everything. <------Unfortunately, it has taken me years to come that conclusion.

Some excellent understand from the forum members.

Lot's daughters turned to incest, because it was not only the custom to make sure the family line continued, but it was also frowned upon by the community if the daughters went without children. I would also believe
that this practice was not unusual in Sodom, where anything was acceptable. The daughters had no values because I believe Lot was self-centered (as indicated by choosing the best pasture lands, instead of giving the choice to his elder). Such a person would not have given Spiritual guidance to his children, thus rebelling against God , to bring up his children
in the way that they should go.Also , the sins of the fathers will be visited
upon the children.

Intoxication for Lot was probably what most members have indicated- the loss of material things and family.I still believe that Lot has some faith having
been with Abraham, and therefore, he looked back at the wrong decisions he
made regarding God's position in his life and knew that HE BLEW IT.

The lesson I believe we should learn from this story is , "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you". "BRING YOUR
CHILDREN UP IN THE NUTURE AND ADMONITION OF THE LORD".

Low moral standards for their lives and low faith.
Lot was a believing father whose faith & committment were just enough to save him, but not his family. He learned too late that he needed to teach his family to not love the world and to stand apart from others.
Because Lot lost his family he became intoxicated. His descendants became pagans. He was weak in his faith because he tolerated the evils and allowed them to go on.
Go where God tells you and don't settle in some " little" place just because it is closer to familiar surroundings.
GOD IS FAITHFUL!!

Lot's daughters were not operating in faith in the God of Abraham. Probably they had none, not having ben so educated. All they could see was a future with no husbands or children, and they wanted that future at all costs, so they planned it. It was a godless future.

Their city was ful of sexual misconduct, homosexuality etc so they probably had no real moral values. They got what they wanted by whatever means they could devise.

I think faith for Lot's daughters was a vague and distant thing that old dad sometimes talked about, and no-one had a clue what he was raving on about anyway!

Lot had few pleasures in life, now that everything he ever valued was lost. He could have gone looking for Abraham, or directly asked God for help, but he didn't see this far. Alcohol was a good old "faithful" way of getting out of problems, so why not console himself a little?

I think Lot's faith was a second hand faith, a derivative of Abraham's faith. He knew and even feared God, but had never developed any relationship with Him. He did not know God. He did not even respond with thankfulness to God for his salvation from the fires of Sodom.

Hope was gone for Lot. His "lot" was a cave, poverty, loneliness and two unhappy daughters. Alcohol would blind him to his own misery.

His choice or residence was made by his rational mind, not through prayer to an alknowing God.

I think we can see the irrationality of human rationale. I know God selected my home for me. Several times I have thought to leave it but could not because I know this is His appointment for me and there is no peace in leaving. What looks attractive about other properties can't bear up in the face of God's plan for me, as borne out by His peace which passes all understanding. I praise Him constantly for keeping me.

Also it's no good having a second hand faith (from parents, Christian friends, the pastor). It's no good expecting them to exercise faith for us all the time. We are to exercise it ourselves. God made us with that capacity and we must rise to that. So many times I see people dependent on pastors for prayer and support, and it's wonderful that they give this. However as we mature I think we should be giving them our support and not leaning on them for everything. Pastors have a hard time meeting everybody's expectations. How different would it have been for Lot if he had the faith of Abraham and moved constantly under God's blessing and protection. Instead he was saved through Abraham's prayers only, and then did not understand what had happened.

They did not see any men in the land and therefore did not see any future. Since sexual misconduct was wide they became involved with it also.

Lot's daughters really had no values whatsoever. How disgusting this must have seem to God that this immoral act was conducted. They actually could have waiting for the right time in other words eventually moved on and found men and became mothers in the right way instead of committing such a sin by getting their father drunk and laid down with him in order to become pregnant.

Lot was afraid and plus his daughters kept giving him wine to drink so that is how he turned to intoxication. Not only was he afraid but he was weak.

Lot did not have any hope whatsoever and he was very influential and his choose of residence was very very sad.

The lesson is to never give in to fear, weakness and people who are influencial in a negative and harmful way.

Why did Lot's daughters turn to incest?
There were no other men around where they were and they wanted to preserve the family line. They didn't want it to die out.
I read a commentary somewhere once that said that Lot's daughters believed they and Lot were the only ones left of the human race. Sleeping with their father was their way of making sure the human race would go on.

What does this tell you about they values? About their faith?
They obviously lacked any values and their faith was practically non existent.
Again, I find it interesting that Lot's daughters are never mentioned by name.
I'm sure God has a reason for this.

Why does Lot turn to intoxication?
Because he has lost everything. Anything that had mattered to him is gone.
He has gone from prosperity to eking out a living in the mountains.

What does this incident tell us about his faith? His hope? His influence?
His choice of residence?
Whatever faith Lot had has been lost and his situation is without hope.
Abraham made God promised He wouldn't destroy Sodom if 10 righteous people were found in it. How sad that Lot couldn't even convert the members of his own family.
Lot made a bad choice in choosing Sodom as his dwelling place. Just because something looks good doesn't mean that it is.
The sad thing is, if Lot would of been willing to swallow his pride and return to his uncle, Abraham probably would of forgiven him and gotten him off to a new start.

They took it upon themselves to preserve their father's lineage instead of praying and relying on God. When our will takes priority over God's will, nothing good results. God's values were most likely not ingrained in them while they were growing up. Living among sin, it is extremely important to guard your mind and spirit by praying and obeying daily if we don't, we weaken and accept rather than resist the evil around us until, we too lose hope and harden. Lesson: Keep feeding the spirit and not the flesh lest we live in the flesh.