Pastor Ralph Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Q16. (James 2:20-26) How does James’ point about the necessity of works jive with Paul’s emphasis on salvation by grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-10)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Pearson Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Works should be the result of salvation but will not earn it in any way ! Only my Lord could could and did that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggie Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Q4. (2:20-26) How does James' point about the necessity of works jive with Paul's emphasis on salvation by grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-10)? What I was going to say is almost word for word what Troy said, so I'll just say a hearty AMEN for his answer:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyandblessings Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Q4. (2:20-26) How does James' point about the necessity of works jive with Paul's emphasis on salvation by grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-10)? Faith with works is stepping out by faith to do the works motivated by love, one of the commandments. God did not envision the church where all were isolated and did no good deeds. However, none of us could provide the sacrifice necessary to obtain salvation. Only Jesus could do that..two different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Q4. (2:20-26) How does James' point about the necessity of works jive with Paul's emphasis on salvation by grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-10)? Paul's 'works' are talking about being saved by and James is talking about doing the 'works' after being saved. As I said before the works won't save you but we have to do the works after we have been saved by grace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonS Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Q4. (2:20-26) How does James' point about the necessity of works jive with Paul's emphasis on salvation by grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-10)? Salvation is a free gift to any one who accepts Jesus as his Lord and savior. It is an exchanged life; we give Jesus our sinful life in exchange for his sinless life. Through his life in us we do the work that Jesus done when he lived on this earth. A life with out the works that James talks about is a life with out Christ. The society of today is not to offend anyone. Well I an sorry but if your life does not have works you are most likely not a Christian and you may be going to hell. If you say you are an artist but have never drawn or painted a picture you are not an artist. You may wish you were an artist but wishing will never make you an artist. Your works will show if you are a artist or not. Today is the first day of the rest of your life make a difference for Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 They're emphasizing different parts of the same sentence. James states that our beliefs are backed by our actions as faith without WORKS is dead and Paul emphasizes that our WORKs do not save us but HIS grace does. Paul isn't saying NOT to act, but reminding us that it is not the ACTIONS that provide salvation. I know of some people who are morally upstanding that perform plenty of good deeds, however, without believing in Christ, they will not obtain salvation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoyceAlaska Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Q4. (2:20-26) How does James' point about the necessity of works jive with Paul's emphasis on salvation by grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-10)? Two sides of the same coin! Paul is pointing out that salvation comes by faith--cannot be earned! But, he also states that we are "saved for good works"--(Eph. 2:10); James says that if you are saved the good works should follow--that it is a natural progression--salvation by grace--then good works!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunilbernard Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Q4. (2:20-26) How does James' point about the necessity of works jive with Paul's emphasis on salvation by grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-10)? I fully agree with Joyce. Two sides of the same coin. James contention is that Good Works should follow salvation-naturally. He doesn't mean that you have to do works for salvation. Good Works are by products of salvation. Paul says obedience to law (good works) does not earn salvation. Salvation is only a free gift of God. Its grace. Unmerited favour. We cannot earn it by any means. It has to be accepted freely and enjoyed. That's all there is to it. No one needs to do any job for earning it. Thus both James and Paul agree that the gift of salvation is a free gift of God and once you are saved, the fruits of the Spirit are manifest in you automatically. If they are not manifest, then your very salvation is in doubt. Check whether you have really confessed your sins and accepted Jesus as your Savior !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebChats Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Q4. (2:20-26) How does James' point about the necessity of works jive with Paul's emphasis on salvation by grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-10)? We are not Christians because we pray .. but we do pray because we are Christians. We are not Chrisitians because we feed the hungry or clothe the poor, however we feed the hungry and clothe the poor because we are Christians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reeves Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Paul is telling us we are "saved by grace throught faith" and James is saying if we don't work after salvation, we are acting just like the demon that once had dominion over us. Other words, we are walking in a sinful state as the demon. "I was once lost, but now I am found". Lost means that I was just like that demon, doomed. Now because of the WORKS of Jesus, I have been found! The Holy Spirit of God was turned loose in this world on the day of Pentecost to find me and convict me of my sin and show me how to be delivered from the clutches of satan and his demons. Jesus promised me if I would come unto Him I would be saved (at no cost to me). Now I work for Him because he poured out his love into me. Other words, I work because I love Him. Jesus saved my soul and gave me eternal life. Working for him just comes natural... Praise God......!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelOnLine Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Q4. (2:20-26) How does James' point about the necessity of works jive with Paul's emphasis on salvation by grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-10)? We are saved by Grace, not by our works. Without works our faith is dead, but also, without faith our works are dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 What first appears as conflicting is actually complimentary when viewed in the context that Paul and James each faced a different situation. Paul was dealing with Jewish confidence in good works as grounds for salvation, whereas James was facing believers who expressed no outward signs of faith. When James refers to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Q4. (2:20-26) How does James' point about the necessity of works jive with Paul's emphasis on salvation by grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-10)? Ephesians 2:10 - For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works ... James 2:22 - You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did ... Agree with Joyce - two sides of the same coin. James referenced Abraham - different dispensation - same doctrine. Paul wrote to the Ephesians who are entirely too much like some "Christians" today. They were used to working on behalf of their gods - it only made sense to them that salvation could be "earned" and what they saw of the Jews and their adherence to legalistic requirements only confirmed their opinion. Paul firmly understood that God called people and gave them unmerited salvation - Paul lived the life that he was called to. James made it clear that we are called to "pure religion" - not ceremonial acts of worship from an impure heart, not pure and wholesome acts that bring recognition to self; but to a servant attitude life that constantly glorifies and calls others to God. Pick all the individual verses you want to quote - but when you compare the entirety of the message delivered by Paul and James - and especially when you look at the relationship between Paul and James in the few mentions recorded in the book of Acts - their messages are in total agreement and the Calvinist/Armeanean disputes in modern Christendom are disrespectful to our loving Savior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Hi all. For me it is quite simple, First comes the salvation by grace and not of works. This means it is a gift freely given by God. As we grow as Christians we now want to know what purpose God has for our lives and what we, out of gratitude, will offer back to God. This is not to earn salvation as it has already been obtained. We want the extra blessing that come out of serving him. At the end of our lives we will say like Paul,We have run the race and fought the good fight ,kept the faith and now await the gift God has kept for us. I believe that God has crowns and commendations he gives to the saints for the work they have done in the world. Some are of hay, wood or stubble while others ar of gold. 1 Cor 3:12-16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank phido Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Works by itself will not bring salvation.But the works together with faih is required to sustain the salvation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightbuilder Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 I liked the way Magnus addressed the question, well spoken. I also appreciate the observation of many others that the issue is in fact "two sides to the same coin." To put it another way; you can't pick up one end of a stick without picking up the other. It is written "...for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." this is (to quote one comentator) "a maxim of unspeakable importance in the Christian life." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindaparadise Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 How does James' point about the necessity of works jive with Paul's emphasis on salvation by grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-10)? james is saying that once you are reborn, that you will willingly do things to be helpful (from your heart and soul) paul is saying that all the good deeds in the world won't get you anywhere if you're doing it to get yourself a seat in heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helenmm Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Faith comes before the good works, not the other way around. The works that God has prepared for us to walk in only function properly (for His glory) as we live in the spirit. If I invite people to my home, I prepare a cake to make a happy occasion of it. But if a lonely person sees that, and decides that by the act of preparing a cake he will bring people to his house, he is mistaken. People come by invitation, (love), not by cake-making. It doesn't work backwards! Grace/faith and works are inextricably interwoven, but the works (acceptable to God) are the product of grace/faith, not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrylynn Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Q4. (2:20-26) How does James' point about the necessity of works jive with Paul's emphasis on salvation by grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-10)? Salvation is a gift of God and after being saved we will perform works as a natural function of having been saved. The love and joy we feel for God and our fellow man will express itself in works. We were put here for a purpose and as we are led by the Spirit we will perform the works we were placed here to carry out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Spaulding Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Q4. (2:20-26) How does James' point about the necessity of works jive with Paul's emphasis on salvation by grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-10)? There is no complication. James is saying that works prove we have been saved, not that they save us. Paul is saying that salvation is not given because of our works, but that the good works are what God has intended us to do when we are saved by Him! For each of us, He has a plan to do of His will in the world. In other words, to do His work of love for our fellow human beings. Without our obedience, or our faith is the same as dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt_Z_Squad Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 4a.) (2:20-26) How does James' point about the necessity of works jive with Paul's emphasis on salvation by grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-10)? 4a.) I guess I have to answer with a question on this one. Wouldn't you want to please the Father because of the freedom we have through His grace? Paul writes in Romans: "So, my brothers, you also died to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God." (Romans 7:4) I think Paul and James are on the same page here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MannyVelarde Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Q4. (2:20-26) How does James' point about the necessity of works jive with Paul's emphasis on salvation by grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-10)? The problem we always have with this works statement is that we think people were saved by the law - adherence to the law. It was never so - - it has always been by God's grace - - faith is what makes us righteous. The church for years has been so afraid of the Old Testament and the salvation by the law - - the people just weren't getting it. We call the BIBLE - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth - but we don't want to be obedient to it's contents. To live a life with God in the front part of our being is what we should desire. If we think about God in everything we do from the time we get up to the time we retire, then our relationship to HIM - will only improve. And how do we know His will for us - - we really can't - but we can know if our lives are inline with God's character and that is by obedience to His Word. The works are the outward sign that we are saved by grace by God's plan - the gracious gift of His Son laying down His life for His friends - - God's promise to us is a changed man - when we receive His gift of grace -- since something is changed - our faith must not remain the same dead faith we had - - the works are like the proof of our salvation. We don't perform the works to achieve salvation - - the works really are our way of mirroring our Messiah. God's new covenant - is to write the laws in our hearts and minds and give us the Spirit to cause us to walk in His ways - - 25 "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances - - Ezekiel 36: 25-28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccs Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Q4. (2:20-26) How does James' point about the necessity of works jive with Paul's emphasis on salvation by grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-10)? It is the way in which the word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
June Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Very plainly stated: That we are saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves, it is a gift from God, not of our own works, so we could not boast. A person is justified by what he does, and not by faith alone. Faith must have actions, faith without deeds is dead. WE ARE NOT SAVED BY OUR WORKS BUT TO DO GOOD WORKS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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