[Pastor Ralph]

Q5. What do we miss in our understanding of God if we remove the metaphor of Father and Son from our church vocabulary? Which feminine metaphors of God especially help you understand God's nature?

[pickledilly]

If we remove the metaphor of the Father-Son relationship from our understanding of God, I believe we miss a great deal. Without it, I think this aspect of our deeply intimate and personal relationship with Yahweh would be diminished to our understanding. The O.T. saints didn't have the fuller revelation that we have of who/what Father is and wants to be to us.

As the Son, Jesus Christ revealed the "sensitive side" of God as our Abba. We can see "Daddy's" tender heart toward us as His children, not just a strong authoritarian and provider. Jesus showed us what the love-relationship of parent and child should look like and how it should operate. He faultlessly demonstrated obedience to the Father's will and leadership because of love, not just duty or fear. We learn of Father as One who is approachable in a compassionate way, whose love is never hurtful or conditional or impaired. And in this, we learn of a new dimension of responsibility for earthly fathers toward their children. Many people have a difficult time with the concept of God the Father as a good thing because of the failed representation of fatherhood by human fathers. We are all to blame for this as a society, as a culture, and as the Body. And human fathers are, well, human - which means even at their best, they still will be flawed.

Yahweh chose to reveal a portion of His character in the father role. But there is more of Him to know. The feminine metaphor of God in the sense of "mother" is equally important, although not as preeminent. There are several ways we could approach this. I'll just choose one direction. The tender nurturing heart of a mother is different from the generally pragmatic outlook of a dad. (The two are mean to complement each other and work together to create balance for children.) The cry of her baby sets off a host of emotional and physical responses that immediately draw a mother to her child. She is fiercely protective of her offspring. I've always said that I'll put up with a lot of insult or injury, but if you go messin' with my children you're really asking for trouble! In the feminine sense, we see how God desires to shelter, encourage, and comfort us in our emotional hurts when life bruises and wounds us, as well as provide that overall leadership and protection.

[charisbarak]

A society that wants to change male characteristics to female is missing the whole picture of how God set up His world. God the authority--head over all (male); man (male) the authority--head over his family--answerable to God; woman (female) to accept the authority before her. There is protection under this umbrella for women.

Yes, God does expect gentleness, kindness, sensitivity and love between man & woman. His authority is not just something to hold over a wife's head. This gentleness & kindness can be seen with Jesus as he interacted with so many different men & women. It just comes easier for the woman becuase of her mothering instincts.

[Helenmm]

It is very disturbing when people want to tinker with the Word of God. They have no idea what they are meddling with. Human intelligence is quite up to understanding that the original word "man" covered both the male and the female of the species, (in the likeness of God) and the female was then taken out of the male to stand alongside him as companion. Adam (means mankind) named her (he had naming rights!)woman (= issue of man). This is God's correct order of things, and to change it is to create disorder and is unthinkable. God is all about relationships and intimacy. Ths Father Son relationship of God and His Christ is crucial to our understanding of them and of us. Feminist jealousy has no place here, and also nothing actually to be afraid of! The picture of God that the Bible gives is like that of (Adam = mankind including woman). The feminine is deeply protected in the Biblical picture. Proverbs 31 suggests that woman is a whole and wonderful creature with all the abilities of the male in business or anywhere else. She is not limited in role. She can choose whatever role she wants. Just let her not neglect her family and children in the process and be like the woman who forgets her children. The Father/Son metaphor for Yahweh and Yeshua enriches our understanding. It does not impoverish it.

I have always loved the idea that God would gather us under His wings like a mother hen. Yes, I want to be there! I love it that He cannot forget his baby. The metaphor about His creation giving birth (cf Rom 8:22, All creation groans in labour) seems to show the feminine attributes of God. I know that creation and God are not the same thing, but certainly God identifies a generative, feminine perspective here.

It's interesting that Jesus came to die for His bride (that's us!) It's like God is one, complete, like the first Adam (mankind) while Jesus the begotten J(not created) Son is looking for His bride - female counterpart. It is better that the brown bride tends her vineyard than tries to make her Lord female! How ridiculous is that!

[steve.c]

Feminist metaphors for God

I think the feminist argument detracts from my belief in God and His charcacteristics. In fact it is a menace. God is Spirit, so He is neither masculine or feminine. He has characteristics which are usually associated with the masculine in human vocabulary: power, authority, Lord of Hosts, Protector and, of course, Father. A monarch, whether male or female, also has such masculine characteristics. The present Queen of England is a Sovereign Lord. She is also Commander in Chief of the Bristish forces and Head of the Government; all traditionally masculine positions. Just in case you think this is a modern delevolment for which feminists can take credit, her illustrious predecessor, Queen Elizabeth 1 made this clear at her speech before her army at Tilbury in 1588. "I know I have the body of a week and feeble woman, but I have the heart and stomach of a king and a king of England too."

God also has maternal traits as well and I do not deny them. Whether some people have objections to a patriarchal society, I have a relationship with God which requires obedience, absolute obedience, and I think for this reason the masculine attributes such as King, Lord and Father are important. What is undeniable is that Jesus' teachings were liberating for women from the start and that His love of children and His admonition to anyone who led them astray shows what He felt of the cruelies which can occur in patriarchal socities. We do not need to reword the New Testament with politically correct "feminist" notions to understand what Jesus teaches.

[JustJeff]

I dare say that removing the metaphor of the Father and the Son from our vocabulary would be like adding two little letters to it: Ms. By the addition of Ms. to our language we have opened the door to total confusion of the word of God, allowing for a new "politically correct" translations with alarming regularity, further diluting our understanding of Yahweh's character and nature.
Believe this. Feminism has created a 3rd level in the female hierchy from Miss, a single woman, to Mrs., a married woman, to Ms., a woman who can have a fatherless child to raise all by herself. Toward that end, a generation of kids is being raised without a father and absolutely no comprehension of nor respect for what a father brings to the table. The love, companionship, protection and guidance that only a male father figure can give is never instilled, forever absent from the makeup of the child. What a shame if we were to remove that imagery of our Heavenly Father and our Mediator Son from our vocabulary. We would lose the entire intent of the bible, that is God's desire for us to know Him and effectively communicate to Him by that knowledge.
The femine metaphors of Yahweh clearly illustrate the pain He suffers to birth us and rear us up. He offers His love and self sacrificing nature for us, in the manner in which a mother would do. He is as close by as a babe to the mother and He feeds with the same closeness and affection of a breast fed infant. I read a story of a great fire on a farm. All was scorched. As the farmer was surveying the damaged he noticed a small pile, a charred carcass laying in the ruin. It was the remains of a chicken. He lifted the remains up and out scurried a number of chicks, alive and well. The hen had given her life to protect her children.
We need to keep God the Father and God the Son in their proper perspective, as He intends, not as society desires.

[Lisa Rupert]

Q5. What do we miss in our understanding of God if we remove the metaphor of Father and Son from our church vocabulary?
If the Father and Son were removed from our vocabulary we would just have "GOD". The relationship would be entirely different from the relationship that God wants to have with his children. But we wouldn't be considered as his children instead we might be considered as his subjects. Would he have CREATED us if he was only GOD? There is a lot to say for us relating to him as our Father and calling Jesus His Son our SAVIOR. We can develop a relationship with the Father. We can pray to him, we can talk to him, we can praise him and worship him. We can adore him, we can love him and we can receive a greater love from him. If he was only a God we would be giving and not be on the receiving in. But our Father wants us to know that he loves us more than anything could ever love us and to do so he has established this bond, this special relationship with us. Whether we want a relationship or not, he never turns away his love from us.

Which feminine metaphors of God especially help you understand God's nature?
God is a nurturer, a protector, a comforter, a teacher....., he is everything that both man and woman could even imagine being, for he is neither man nor woman yet he created both man and woman and beast..... So he can love like a woman and be strong and protective like a man. Remember he is God that means he is EVERYTHING and we can't even imagine what else he maybe because we can't imagine that high.

[sahala p.s.]

Pastor Ralph, on Mar 2 2006, 05:23 AM, said:

Q5. What do we miss in our understanding of God if we remove the metaphor of Father and Son from our church vocabulary? Which feminine metaphors of God especially help you understand God's nature?

If we remove the metaphor of Father and Son from our church vocabulary, we miss a lot of things. In the metaphor God as Father God want to state that He is like a good father of world, a father guiding and educating his children to walk in the right way but correcting them if they do wrong, and a father ready to protect his children from their enemies, disaters and to be helper any time we need Him, a father want If removing that metaphor we only imagine that God is only a ruler, God does whatever He want to do to us, and God is far from us.

About metaphor of Son. We know that Son was delegated by Father to the world to execute a plan. The plan was The Son had to die on the cross to save man from their sins. Only by His Son that was unsin God can save man. This is the duty of Son. We can imagine if the metaphor Son is not exist, it means the saving plan is not exist too.

About feminine methapors of God, I like the metaphors of a mother quieting her child on her lap and of a mother comforting her son. Both pictures the gentleness and care of God like mother to her child. God will quite us if we are depressed or sickheart, and God will comfort us if we are sad, sorrowful.

[June]

We would miss the whole New Testament if we remove the Father Son metaphor from church vocabulary. It is all about relationship. We wouldn't have the whole Easter Story to be blessed by. Jesus' Life as we know it.
That He is a caring , compassionate God and wants only what is best for me as He does for all His children, so I guess most of the feminine metaphors would apply. Though God is genderless, He certainly can be both our mother figure and Father whenever and whichever one we need at the time.He is still Our Holy, Heavenly Father and God of all creation.

[s8nfighter]

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me. 38 And now look, your house is left to you, empty and desolate. 39 For I tell you this, you will never see me again until you say, 'Bless the one who comes in the name of the Lord! (Matt. 23)
19 For I am about to do a brand-new thing. See, I have already begun! Do you not see it? I will make a pathway through the wilderness for my people to come home. I will create rivers for them in the desert!(Isa.43)
I often think of just these two verses and weep for God. How we must hurt Him each and every day. God has created the pathway for us to come home, like the father that builds roads, our Father has created for us a pathway. Along that narrow path there is complete joy in pleasing the Father by not running off the road. Don't be dejected and sad, for the joy of the LORD is your strength!" (Ps 21:1 ) It is not that kind of joy we often seek, the joy that comes from pleasing God. But oh what joy, there is none quite so fullfilling as to think maybe just maybe you were the one that brought a smile to the Father.
I grew up pretty poor, but therre was one thing that made me happy as a child, one thing that still makes me overflow with joy today, even though my mother has long since pass on. That one thing is the smile on mom's face when she saw that my chores were complete. She never got angry if the chores were not done, she would just do them herself after working all day, but the happiness I gave her when they were done.
The Father, Son is a relationship. Take the Father, Son out and there is no relationship. It took the life of Christ to put that relationship in there why would anybody want to take it out. For I am about to do a brand-new thing. See, I have already begun! Do you not see it?
Darrell

[Embraced by the Father]

I think we lose the understanding of authority if we remove the word “Father” from church vocabulary. God assigned different roles to males and to females. When I think of “father” I think of a provider, a king, a shepherd, a lord, my strength, my stronghold, a disciplinarian and etc. These are the perceptions I have when I think of God being masculine.

Thinking of God being masculine does not negate the fact that God is also feminine. Only in our human thought patterns do we think one needs to be one or the other. But God is not bound by human thought pattersn. God’s nature is both male and female. God is female in that he has gentle love, has nurturing skills, has feelings that is easily hurt, is a comforter and is a counselor. He often weeps and is sorrowful, a quality that we don't consider masculine!

[Lion of Grace]

The Bible says " Father" not "Mother" when refering to God. It says "Son" not "Daughter" when refering to God. So I know God's intention is to show himself in the masculine and refer to Himself in the masculine....because that's what the the Word of God says. He does reveal feminine characteristics of himself though, so His personality has both. We shouldn't change the Word of God...ever...so I don't like to hear of it being done. I know God in the masculine, because God refers to himself that way, so to me that is the truth.
God designed men and women differently and we as a culture have blended those differences, so, many want to do that in a Spiritual sense also....but that's impossible....we can't change who God really is. Men have been given authority. We as women, are under the umbrella of the authority put over us. This can be a wonderful thing with Godly men over us just as it is a wonderful thing to have " Father" over us in all His authority. It is good that way. I couldn't ever relate to God as a woman, because I see Him covering over me in a most blessed way. Nor would I want to see Him as " just a spirit" with no assigned role except what I wanted Him to be either. I am secure under Him just the way He himself assigns Himself in the Bible.
I have lived two ways, the first way on my own denying authority over me and with disasterous results and now under the umbrella of my husband and Godly men who were examples to both of us while we learn. I have more security and joy in my life now then I ever, ever had. God is also the head of man....so it seems to me they would relate in a similar way. Anyway you look at it...we are all submitting to His authority.

[care2hope2]

If we remove the metaphors of Father and Son we will miss our understanding of God as

Ruler and protector. God as protector really is a metaphore that I and alot of people I

know use and like and are comforted by.

The chick's being gathered under God's wing is one I particularly like and can understand

and apply in my life in many ways. the other metaphors were ok but I did not relate to them.

[Linda Stanley]

IF WE REMOVE THE METAPHOR OF FATHER AND SON FROM OUR CHURCH VOCABULARY,HOW WOULD WE EXPRESS THE TRINITY.GOD IS OUR HEAVENLY FATHER,WE LOOK TO GOD AS FATHER OF OUR CHURCH.WE KNOW GOD SENT HIS SON, TO SAVE THE WORLD.IN OUR CHURCH WE TEACH ABOUT WHO THE SON OF GOD IS.IN THE WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY,METAPHOR MEANS A FIGURE OF SPEACH.I PRAY OUR CHURCHES NEVER GET TO THAT POINT IN SPEAKING OUT THE NAME OF FATHER AND SON IN LOSING THE FULL MEANINGS OF THEIR NAME. IT WOULD BE A GREAT LOSS OF UNDERSTANDING, IN WHICH TO NOT GAIN THE FULL MEANING OF FATHER AND SON.
I AM A FEMALE AND I REALLY NEVER THOUGHT OF GOD ON THE FEMININE SIDE,OR OF GOD AND JESUS IN THE MOTHERING ROLE.GOD DID CREATE MAN AND WOMAN IN HIS OWN IMAGE.I ALWAYS LOOKED AT WOMEN TO BE ON THE WEAK SIDE.AS A WOMAN I USED TO FEEL I HAD TO PROVE MYSELF TO BE ACCEPTED IN MY WORK PLACE BECAUSE OF MY DOING A JOB IN A MANS FIELD OF WORK.I THEN WENT HOME TO BE A MOTHER AND HOUSE-WIFE.IF YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING.(WOMENS WORK).TIME REALLY CHANGES THE WAY PEOPLE LIVE.THERE ARE SOME AWESOME MEN OUT THERE THAT PLAY A MOTHERS ROLE, AND I HIGHLY RESPECT THEM FOR THE JOB THEY ARE DOING.
NOW I HAVE COME TO UNDERSTAND IN SPIRIT WE ARE EQUAL.WE ARE NOT MAN OR WOMAN..WE ARE ALL CREATED IN GODS IMAGE,EVEN THOUGH I HAVE A WOMANS BODY..HOW I PICKED UP ON THIS FROM THESE QUESTIONS,HOLY SPIRIT IS A GOOD TEACHER. IN GENESIS 1:27 I HAVE READ THIS MANY TIMES,NEVER REALY LOOKING AT "IN HIS OWM IMAGE".I WILL NOW THINK OF MYSELF IN A DIFFRENT WAY.AMEN

[Stan]

Q5. What do we miss in our understanding of God if we remove the metaphor of Father and Son from our church vocabulary? Which feminine metaphors of God especially help you understand God's nature?


I agree that there is a number of places that a feminine side of God is shown, one can even argue that the protective side is more feminine.ever seen a mother hen protect her chicks, but to call God by a fiminine name is to me a sin against the creator. We are instructed to follow Christ, He is our example, He call God the Father and taught the desciples to pray that way so that is good enough for me.

[Saved55s]

What do we miss in our understanding of God if we remove the metaphor of Father and Son from our church vocabulary?
If we removed the metaphor of Father & Son, I believe we would miss the emphasis of God’s nature of being our protector & ruler, of being our strength, our refuge, etc. I think the masculine metaphor emphasizes strength.

Which feminine metaphors of God especially help you understand God's nature?
Where Jesus compared himself to a mother hen gathering her chicks under her wings: Luke 13:34 “…How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings...” {NLT}

[satyaevangeline]

Human intelligence is quite up to understanding that the original word "man" covered both the male and the female of the species, (in the likeness of God) and the female was then taken out of the male to stand alongside him as companion. Adam (means mankind) named her (he had naming rights!)woman (= issue of man). This is God's correct order of things, and to change it is to create disorder and is unthinkable. God is all about relationships and intimacy. God the authority--head over all (male); man (male) the authority--head over his family--answerable to God; woman (female) to accept the authority before her. There is protection under this umbrella for women.

Yes, God does expect gentleness, kindness, sensitivity and love between man & woman. His authority is not just something to hold over a wife's head. This gentleness & kindness can be seen with Jesus as he interacted with so many different men & women. It just comes easier for the woman because of her mothering instincts.
The Father Son relationship of God and His Christ is crucial to our understanding of them and of us. Feminist jealousy has no place here, and also nothing actually to be afraid of! The picture of God that the Bible gives is like that of (Adam = mankind including woman). The feminine is deeply protected in the Biblical picture. Proverbs 31 suggests that woman is a whole and wonderful creature with all the abilities of the male in business or anywhere else. She is not limited in role. She can choose whatever role she wants. Just let her not neglect her family and children in the process and be like the woman who forgets her children. The Father/Son metaphor for Yahweh and Yeshua enriches our understanding. It does not impoverish it. I have always loved the idea that God would gather us under His wings like a mother hen. Yes, I want to be there! I love it that He cannot forget his baby. I know that creation and God are not the same thing, but certainly God identifies a generative, feminine perspective here.

It's interesting that Jesus came to die for His bride (that's us!) It's like God is one, complete, like the first Adam (mankind) while Jesus the begotten J(not created) Son is looking for His bride - female counterpart. It is better that the brown bride tends her vineyard than tries to make her Lord female! How ridiculous is that!

[denisetowns]

Pastor Ralph, on Mar 1 2006, 09:23 PM, said:

Q5. What do we miss in our understanding of God if we remove the metaphor of Father and Son from our church vocabulary? Which feminine metaphors of God especially help you understand God's nature?

If we remove the Father and Son from our church it would'nt be the same,The feminine metaphors of God is that God cares for our his children just as a mother cares for her childrens.

[TennLady01]

Q5. What do we miss in our understanding of God if we remove the metaphor of Father and Son from our church vocabulary?
When you remove the metaphor Father and Son you remove part of the word of God it should not be done. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost is the head over all. They are our protectors and our providers just as a husband is to a wife and unto his children. It is wrong to try to change this for anyone. Or for any reason it is wrong. We are not to play around with the word of God and change the things he has given to us, and we should know he is a male the Son is male and the Holy Ghost is male not an it as so many refer to him as. This scripture some's it up for me totally and we need to be very careful what we do with the word of God.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

Which feminine metaphors of God especially help you understand God's nature?
I never think of God as a female. I know he is male and yes men do love and help and do for the female that is out of love and they should love their children. This to me is not a female thing it is love and is shared by both man and woman. I do not see why we need to think of these as female traits they are good traits for man and woman.

[4sue]

I like the metaphor of God as Mother, it connotes warmth, gentleness, creation and unconditional love. Father connotes a slightly more distant relationship and a strong sense of discipline. Combining the two into one concept I think is a powerful notion.
However,
the Father and the son are presented in the bible as male and it tells us that God's order is for male to be above female in authority. It would not be consistent with God's plan therefore to represent God as female and have His authority brought into question. The Holy Spirit is also announced by Jesus as a male person.