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Q3. (Matthew 5:39-42) What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common? Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages? In another way?
Q3. Examples, Case Law, Hyperbole?
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#2
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Posted 16 February 2008 - 07:32 PM
QUOTE(Pastor Ralph @ Dec 20 2007, 03:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Q3. (Matthew 5:39-42) What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common? Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages? In another way?
To many Jews of Jesus' day, these statements were offensive. Any Messiah who would turn the other cheek was not the military leader they wanted to lead a revolt against Rome. Since they were under Roman oppression , they wanted retalliation against their enemies, whom they hated. But Jesus suggested a new radical response to injustice: instead of demanding rights, give them up freely! According to Jesus , it is more important to give justice and mercy than to receive it. No I do not agree we would aide and abet evil. Take these example in obedience to the command of Jesus.
God's purpose behind this law was an expression of mercy. The law was given to judges and said, in effect, "Make the punishment fit the crime. " It was not a guide for personal revenge. These laws were given to limit vengeance and help the court administer punishment that was neither too strict nor too lenient. Some people , however , were using this phrase to justify their vendettes against others. People still try to excuse their acts of revenge by saying," I was just doing to him what he did to me.
When we were wronged , often our first reaction is to get even. Instead Jesus said we should do good to those who wrong us ! Our desire should not be to keep score. but to love and forgive. That is not natural- it is supernatural. Only God can give us the strength to love as He does. Instead of planning vengeance , pray for those who hurt you.
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Posted 16 February 2008 - 09:07 PM
These examples simply call us to live a life of Christ like love. To set selfish interest or retaliation aside and use such times as a way to minister in love to those involved. This can only happen when we willingly set self aside and allow Christ to live in and through us as He so desires. In no way would this aid and abet evil, for it is a call to live our lives on a much higher level than that of the world. It is life as Christ lived.
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Posted 16 February 2008 - 10:49 PM
[quote name='Pastor Ralph' date='Dec 19 2007, 11:27 PM' post='32199']
Q3. (Matthew 5:39-42) What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common? Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages
WE ARE SUPPOSE TO TURN THE OTHER CHEEK .. GO THE EXTRA MILE .... GIVE THEM OUR CLOAK AND DON'T SWITCH IT AROUND TO SUIT OUR NEEDS ..BUT WE DO IT FOR JESUS..JUST TAKE THEM THE WAY JESUS GAVE THEM
Q3. (Matthew 5:39-42) What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common? Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages
WE ARE SUPPOSE TO TURN THE OTHER CHEEK .. GO THE EXTRA MILE .... GIVE THEM OUR CLOAK AND DON'T SWITCH IT AROUND TO SUIT OUR NEEDS ..BUT WE DO IT FOR JESUS..JUST TAKE THEM THE WAY JESUS GAVE THEM
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Posted 17 February 2008 - 05:54 AM
Q3. (Matthew 5:39-42) What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common? I offered my back to those who beat me and my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard. I did not hide my face from mockery and spitting. Give to anyone who asks; and when things are taken away from you, don’t try to get them back. Do to others as you would like them to do to you. “If you love only those who love you, why should you get credit for that? Even sinners love those who love them! And if you do good only to those who do good to you, why should you get credit? Even sinners do that much! And if you lend money only to those who can repay you, why should you get credit? Even sinners will lend to other sinners for a full return.
Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages? In another way? I think we should consider only one thing. Yahshua did not say these things so that we can pick and choose from them, what ever works for us in any given circumstance. He intended then and still intended now for us to be servants to others and give even our very life as a living sacrifice. This is our reasonable service, is it not?
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth." This Divine statute, had been grossly perverted by the scribes and Pharisees. They had twisted it’s intention and design by giving it a false application. These leaders had so expounded this precept as though God had given permission for each individual to take the law into his own hands and avenge his own wrongs. This pattern has been rotated year after year after year and will continue until Yah’shua comes to rule in peace. Disobedience is ugly in His sight and we must all come to this conclusion and repent. As servants of Christ, we shall declare all the counsel of God, no matter how distasteful and displeasing it may be to the natural man. We shall not corrupt the Truth and refuse to withhold any part of our God-given message.
Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages? In another way? I think we should consider only one thing. Yahshua did not say these things so that we can pick and choose from them, what ever works for us in any given circumstance. He intended then and still intended now for us to be servants to others and give even our very life as a living sacrifice. This is our reasonable service, is it not?
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth." This Divine statute, had been grossly perverted by the scribes and Pharisees. They had twisted it’s intention and design by giving it a false application. These leaders had so expounded this precept as though God had given permission for each individual to take the law into his own hands and avenge his own wrongs. This pattern has been rotated year after year after year and will continue until Yah’shua comes to rule in peace. Disobedience is ugly in His sight and we must all come to this conclusion and repent. As servants of Christ, we shall declare all the counsel of God, no matter how distasteful and displeasing it may be to the natural man. We shall not corrupt the Truth and refuse to withhold any part of our God-given message.
"Prayer is the spirit, speaking truth to truth". Philip James Bailey
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Posted 17 February 2008 - 08:43 PM
QUOTE(Pastor Ralph @ Dec 19 2007, 09:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Q3. (Matthew 5:39-42) What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common? Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages? In another way?
The point is that it is better to be insulted even twice than to take the matter to court, this is what Jesus was trying to explain in His examples.
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Posted 19 February 2008 - 12:32 AM
Q3. (Matthew 5:39-42)
What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common?
He wants us to do more than is required of us by our enemies, by those who are trying to use us, by those who are trying to take advantage of us. Rather than turn on them with resistance and retaliation we are to -- in love for them -- give them more than they require.
Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree?
This law was never intended to give an individual person the right to indulge in even the least little bit of vengeance. It was, in every case, intended to be a guide for a judge to follow in the assessment of a penalty for a crime that was committed.
How should we take these examples:
Jesus expects a different standard from us than what the world expects of us. This Sermon on the Mount is a challenge. Knowing it, you're going to have to decide who you're going to follow.
Jesus point is clear. He wants us to do more than is required of us by our enemies, by those who are trying to use us, by those who are trying to take advantage of us. Rather than turn on them with resistance and retaliation we are to -- in love for them -- give them more than they require.
What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common?
He wants us to do more than is required of us by our enemies, by those who are trying to use us, by those who are trying to take advantage of us. Rather than turn on them with resistance and retaliation we are to -- in love for them -- give them more than they require.
Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree?
This law was never intended to give an individual person the right to indulge in even the least little bit of vengeance. It was, in every case, intended to be a guide for a judge to follow in the assessment of a penalty for a crime that was committed.
How should we take these examples:
Jesus expects a different standard from us than what the world expects of us. This Sermon on the Mount is a challenge. Knowing it, you're going to have to decide who you're going to follow.
Jesus point is clear. He wants us to do more than is required of us by our enemies, by those who are trying to use us, by those who are trying to take advantage of us. Rather than turn on them with resistance and retaliation we are to -- in love for them -- give them more than they require.
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Posted 19 February 2008 - 03:03 AM
The common theme is not to resist someone when he is taking from you. Resistance hardens our hearts to that person.
No, we do not aid & abet evil when this happens. We let God take the revenge on the person. We are to give willingly.
As case law--the judge decides what needs to be paid back. We must be willing to take a loss rather than have a hard heart.
As hyperbole--give more than expected or asked for.
As adages--same. Our love would show through.
This is very difficult to think about doing--I can see myself demanding MY rights, MY things, and yet I do not have any rights, really, and the things are God's!!
No, we do not aid & abet evil when this happens. We let God take the revenge on the person. We are to give willingly.
As case law--the judge decides what needs to be paid back. We must be willing to take a loss rather than have a hard heart.
As hyperbole--give more than expected or asked for.
As adages--same. Our love would show through.
This is very difficult to think about doing--I can see myself demanding MY rights, MY things, and yet I do not have any rights, really, and the things are God's!!
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Posted 19 February 2008 - 03:06 PM
QUOTE(Pastor Ralph @ Dec 19 2007, 09:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Q3. (Matthew 5:39-42) What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common? Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages? In another way?
38 "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
"Do not resist an evil person" indicates that the first person was in the wrong. "If someone sues you" indicates that the second person is in the wrong. In both cases vengence is done away with. In the first case Jesus says that you should not seek vengence in court, and in the second case he is saying offer double payment instead of going to court.
I don't think that we should take this to the extreme and put ourselves in harms way and therefore putting God to a test as Jesus also warns in chapter 4:6 "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "'He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'" 7 Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"
I we take Jesus' words as an adage he is saying that we should not provoke a fight and that we should look to the more honorable way out.
Darrell
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Posted 19 February 2008 - 05:44 PM
Q3. What do Jesus’ examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common? Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: as case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorism or adages? In another way?
The “understood Law” or disciplinary action consists of: 1) a verbal warning, 2) to be written up by employer, 3) suspension or ending employment. These are ways in which we can possible resolve an issue without an act of violence. Insults should be discussed with a mediator, those who sue—only take equitable compensation, and serve with humility when asked or told to do something reasonable.
Jesus wants us to become one who has a higher standard than those who harm. Our Christian command is to love each other. Love sometimes means discipline, tough love, or anything that helps the person to become a better person—not to knock them down and destroy them.
The “understood Law” or disciplinary action consists of: 1) a verbal warning, 2) to be written up by employer, 3) suspension or ending employment. These are ways in which we can possible resolve an issue without an act of violence. Insults should be discussed with a mediator, those who sue—only take equitable compensation, and serve with humility when asked or told to do something reasonable.
Jesus wants us to become one who has a higher standard than those who harm. Our Christian command is to love each other. Love sometimes means discipline, tough love, or anything that helps the person to become a better person—not to knock them down and destroy them.
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Posted 20 February 2008 - 05:26 AM
QUOTE(Pastor Ralph @ Dec 20 2007, 03:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Q3. (Matthew 5:39-42) What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common? Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages? In another way?
1) Each one is a higher calling to outrageous love, rather than to resist or retaliate.
2)No, Jesus would never call us to abet or aid evil. I believe that those who say this may be confusing His words with what one may be required to do in a violent or abusive situation. These cameos are speaking of insults, or use of time or matierial goods, like a cloak. He's not saying to stay in a life threatening situation if you can escape, or to go willingly with a rapist, etc.
3)As a call to do more than is required by our enemies, or by those trying to use or take advantage of us, rather than to try to get revenge, hold a grudge, or get even.
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Posted 20 February 2008 - 06:11 PM
Q3. (Matthew 5:39-42) What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common? Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages? In another way?
They are to teach us that we are to be more than kind to those who aren't necessarily kind to us. We are to treat even our enemies as though they are our brothers. We are to show love to all people not just those close to us. No, abetting would be allowing someone to harm another and does not apply when talking about your self. You can forgive some one who harms you can't forgive someone who harms another they alone can do that. We should take them just as the are at face value to help teach us to love our neighbor as our self.
They are to teach us that we are to be more than kind to those who aren't necessarily kind to us. We are to treat even our enemies as though they are our brothers. We are to show love to all people not just those close to us. No, abetting would be allowing someone to harm another and does not apply when talking about your self. You can forgive some one who harms you can't forgive someone who harms another they alone can do that. We should take them just as the are at face value to help teach us to love our neighbor as our self.
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Posted 20 February 2008 - 10:59 PM
They all show that we should go the extra mile. We don't abet evil, but people think about what was done.
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Posted 21 February 2008 - 12:48 AM
These cameo's alter our perception of all situations in life. The motive or reason we do anything now is not in self interest but to glorify the father. It is about our relationship with Jesus - about being salt and light about living in a new loving way where our focus is different. We are not encouraged to abet evil in any way we are encourged to seek the Father's will in all areas of our life. It is about being different.
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Posted 21 February 2008 - 02:53 PM
These are illustrations of love for our fellow man. These rules are not to be taken as case law because they are meant to be applied at a personal level. Chistlike love should always be our response to personal insults, slurs, or demands. We should recognize that we are as fallen as the one who is personally offending us. On the contrary to the thought that these sorts of responses would aid and abet evil, they would instead be "heaping burning coals on his head" (Proverbs 25:22; Romans 12:20)
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Posted 22 February 2008 - 04:15 PM
They are showing LOVE to the enemy. There would be no reason for hatred and doing evil if love was shown all the time.
These were only case examples to show us how to handle certain things if they should arise. Mainly to show love in all situations.
These were only case examples to show us how to handle certain things if they should arise. Mainly to show love in all situations.
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Posted 22 February 2008 - 06:50 PM
Q3. (Matthew 5:39-42) What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common? Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree?
Yes! I do think if taken literally, depending on the circumstances, we would aid and abet evil. I think through the centuries, we have turned the other cheek to evil, we did not take a stand for justice, and we let evil rule. The church literally turned the other cheek when the Jews were tortured, and killed, because they did not believe Jesus was the Messiah. But, here, I believe the Lord is speaking about our spiritual growth, coming from the heart. Do not let hatred, revenge, rule our hearts, Let love rule instead.
God's teaching to us is, not to let evil rule our lives, and especially our hearts; This isn't a teaching for us to turn the cheek to injustice. We live in this world who's ruler is Satan. If taken literally, we would literally have to turn the cheek if an evil person came into our home, to do evil.
Jesus, speaking to the Pharisees who adhered to the law outwardly, is teaching the importance of following the law inwardly, from the heart, a heart set to please God Almighty. Yes, take it literally if you want to grow in the Lord, to let Him change our hearts. It is a heart operation.
Yes! I do think if taken literally, depending on the circumstances, we would aid and abet evil. I think through the centuries, we have turned the other cheek to evil, we did not take a stand for justice, and we let evil rule. The church literally turned the other cheek when the Jews were tortured, and killed, because they did not believe Jesus was the Messiah. But, here, I believe the Lord is speaking about our spiritual growth, coming from the heart. Do not let hatred, revenge, rule our hearts, Let love rule instead.
God's teaching to us is, not to let evil rule our lives, and especially our hearts; This isn't a teaching for us to turn the cheek to injustice. We live in this world who's ruler is Satan. If taken literally, we would literally have to turn the cheek if an evil person came into our home, to do evil.
Jesus, speaking to the Pharisees who adhered to the law outwardly, is teaching the importance of following the law inwardly, from the heart, a heart set to please God Almighty. Yes, take it literally if you want to grow in the Lord, to let Him change our hearts. It is a heart operation.
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Posted 22 February 2008 - 07:10 PM
What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common?
They are all examples of giving more than required - of yourself and your posessions - giving more love to the people around you and not just your friends.
Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages? In another way?
There will always be people that will take advantage of these things but on the whole people would see you as being different. I don't believe Jesus is asking or telling us to let everyone walk all over us and to not stand up for ourselves. He is saying that everything we do - to do it with love not to hate the person or to react with hate. How would we treat a very close friend who hurt us? With the love and forgiveness that Jesus is talking about. We should be the same for our enemies as they are God's children too.
They are all examples of giving more than required - of yourself and your posessions - giving more love to the people around you and not just your friends.
Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages? In another way?
There will always be people that will take advantage of these things but on the whole people would see you as being different. I don't believe Jesus is asking or telling us to let everyone walk all over us and to not stand up for ourselves. He is saying that everything we do - to do it with love not to hate the person or to react with hate. How would we treat a very close friend who hurt us? With the love and forgiveness that Jesus is talking about. We should be the same for our enemies as they are God's children too.
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Posted 24 February 2008 - 11:32 AM
QUOTE(Pastor Ralph @ Dec 20 2007, 03:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Q3. (Matthew 5:39-42) What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common? Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages? In another way?
In common Jesus’ examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have that Jesus he wants us to do good to our enemies, do more than is required of us by our enemies. It means he want us to have a higher standard, he want us to have a radical love.
No, I do not agree to that saying that if we were to carry out verses 39-42, we would aid and abet evil.
We should take these examples as illustrations to understand what Jesus wants us to do our enemies.
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Posted 26 February 2008 - 02:07 PM
Jesus often used hyperbole or exaggeration to drive home His wise sayings. When you are teaching it is often necessary in order to get people to pay attention.
The common factor in verses 39-42 is love. The Lord wants us to love our neighbor as we do ourselves, even if our neighbor happens to be our worst enemy. I don't believe He intends for us to get our tailends whooped or to give all of our possessions in order to show love as He does expect us to be able to rule with a rod of iron. The point here is that we are to do the right thing out of love. That is compassion and is the greatest way to win over your adversary.
The common factor in verses 39-42 is love. The Lord wants us to love our neighbor as we do ourselves, even if our neighbor happens to be our worst enemy. I don't believe He intends for us to get our tailends whooped or to give all of our possessions in order to show love as He does expect us to be able to rule with a rod of iron. The point here is that we are to do the right thing out of love. That is compassion and is the greatest way to win over your adversary.