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Q2. The Law Reveals and Provokes Sin

#1 User is offline   Pastor Ralph

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 12:17 AM

Q2. (Romans 7:7-8) The law reveals sin for what it is. Why wouldn't we be better off just not knowing that we should not covet, for example? Why does the flesh respond to being told "Do not covet" by coveting all the more?
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#2 User is offline   pickledilly

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 06:15 PM

Would we be better off not to know the particulars of sin? First of all, if we were never made aware of the law, the code of moral right, we would live in total chaos (a direction we seem to heading in because of our societal drift from that very thing). But most important, we would never be able to understand God, the problem of our severed relationship with Him, or the requirement for restoration. The specifics of sin reveal the specifics of our violation of His holiness and the details of our rebellion. The law shows us what sin looks like to God.

The natural is an enemy of the spiritual. When a spiritual specific is revealed and we are told not to do it, that innate nature of rebellion against God, the flesh, rises up in protest like a fiend. Anyone who's decided to "go on a diet" understands this principle! All the things you know you shouldn't eat become the very things you want most as the mind, will, and emotions press for their desires and demands. The selfish flesh essentially says, "you can't tell me what to do…I'll show you!”

It's fairly easy to say, "don't sin" in a universal generalized way. It's quite another thing to say, "don't crave forbidden things, or harbor anger, or steal someone's reputation, or ignore the needs of your aging parents, or lie to cover up your blunder, or engage in sexual immorality" in a pointed detailed way. That kind of blinding focus on a core flaw is uncomfortable because it exposes the dark shadowy inner self. We don't want to look within that way, so we tend to try to defend and justify ourselves rather than admit the truth. But making that choice strengthens the influence of the flesh, which then exerts more demanding control than before, which leads to greater sin.

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#3 User is offline   hanks

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 08:22 AM

Q2. (Romans 7:7-8)
The law reveals sin for what it is. Why wouldn't we be better off just not knowing that we should not covet, for example?
As long as we compare ourselves with others, we feel fairly respectable. As soon as we become aware of God’s law we, then only, realize how sinful we are. Coveting takes place in the mind. The Bible named it as sin. It is only now that we realize how corrupt our thought life is. Evil thoughts are sinful as evil deeds. So we notice our sin, understand them and are able to manage them; and repent of them. We cannot assume that man automatically realizes that certain thoughts or words or actions are sin. Law indicates to us what is; and what is not a violation. Paul states that he would not have known about coveting if the law had not mentioned it. Desire becomes ****. Coveting is ****. **** is uncontrollable, it desires to dominate or control others, it hurts others and it ignores the provisions of God.

Why does the flesh respond to being told "Do not covet" by coveting all the more?
When the law forbids all kinds of evil coveting, our corrupt nature is awakened all the more to do it. Human nature is inherently rebellious. Give us a law and we will see it as a challenge to break it. Whenever an act is forbidden, the sinful nature wants to do it all the more. Prov 9:17, ‘Stolen water is sweet; food eaten in secret is delicious!’ We know that desire for what we cannot have is the very first craving for wrongdoing. But as believers we know Jesus imparts a new desire and ability so that our greatest pleasure becomes bringing pleasure to God.

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#4 User is offline   turnerjb1

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Post icon  Posted 19 October 2008 - 01:29 AM

It seems, we as humans, want what we cannot have. Look at a child; tell them they can't have a cookie, and they'll want the cookie all the more. Therefore, if we're told not to desire something, we'll desire something all the more. We want what we can't have, which is the same as coveting.

This does not refer to all sins, being told not to commit murder does not make me want to murder more or to respect my parents do I respect them less, but this is just like the apple in the Garden of Edon, Adam and Eve were told not to eat the apple. If the apple wasn't mentioned, then they wouldn't have wanted it. dry.gif
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#5 User is offline   Elwood C O'Dell

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 06:26 PM

Ignorance of one’s sin is not bliss. By knowing our sin the Lord can help us to deal with the issue. As far as sin increasing that is the nature of the situation. Sin has a way of compounding the issue. That’s why we need Him, for only His power can break the chains of sin that bind us.
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#6 User is offline   Stan

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 09:18 AM

Q2. (Romans 7:7-8) The law reveals sin for what it is. Why wouldn't we be better off just not knowing that we should not covet, for example? Why does the flesh respond to being told "Do not covet" by coveting all the more?
Knowing does not stop any wrong from being sin. When we are made aware that it is sin sometime just that fact bring on the desire to want to do it more. Our sinful nature makes us often want things that are not right for us and that are therefore sinful. If we look at someone lustly for instnance not knowing **** doesn't makeit anymore less a sin but once you are aware of **** doesn't stop it either some time just the reverse making it worse. Only the Holy Spirit at work in us can give us the strength to over come our sins and become more like Christ.
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#7 User is offline   paulcrf

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 01:51 PM

QUOTE(Pastor Ralph @ Aug 16 2008, 08:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Q2. (Romans 7:7-8) The law reveals sin for what it is. Why wouldn't we be better off just not knowing that we should not covet, for example? Why does the flesh respond to being told "Do not covet" by coveting all the more?


Ignorance of the law excuses no one. The law was established to warn us of impending violations should we continue not to take heed of it. Lawlessness causes chaos and confusion. Law establishes order.

The flesh is sinful. It desires to do what is pleasing to him. It craves what the spirit do not. It yearns passions and lusts. What is appealing to the flesh is against the desire of the spirit.
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#8 User is offline   reily

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 02:12 PM

QUOTE(Pastor Ralph @ Aug 15 2008, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Q2. (Romans 7:7-8) The law reveals sin for what it is. Why wouldn't we be better off just not knowing that we should not covet, for example? Why does the flesh respond to being told "Do not covet" by coveting all the more?


Our God is a God of truth a justise there fore he wants us to know the truth. Truth is truth therefor not knowing is ingnornace of the truth. God would want us to understand the truth therefore he would wantt us to know that the law is do not covet Our flesh on the other hand has two nature the nature of flesh and the nature of the spirit regenerated by the lord. Therefore the flesh responds by the only way it knows to covet but the spirit respond by do not covet. It is God's way of giving us a power over the flesh so we can chose him and his name woukld be gloried becuase of our choice.
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#9 User is offline   JustJeff

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 02:13 PM

Sin is sin, whether we know it or not. By knowing the law we see that we are not only sinning against God, we are crucifying the Lord of Glory all over again each time we transgress. I would prefer to be aware of this, realizing that I have the ability to love, rather than hurt the Savior.
Unfortunately, my flesh doesn't be like to be told what it can and cannot do. When I try to withhold something it craves it drives me nuts until I am able to go through the fire.
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#10 User is offline   open2itall

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Post icon  Posted 20 October 2008 - 04:20 PM

Q2. (Romans 7:7-8) The law reveals sin for what it is. Why wouldn't we be better off just not knowing that we should not covet, for example? because sin would still be damaging us and the world around us, sin is always ultimately painful, it takes us away from God. Why does the flesh respond to being told "Do not covet" by coveting all the more? I'm not sure I understand this, but in my experience, what I focus on rules, and so it is counter productive to focus on what I shouldn't be doing.
What I mean is that it is not enough to be told what not to do.
Our senses will only disengage with what is wrong, when we engage with Christ.
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#11 User is offline   McCollum

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 07:16 PM

QUOTE(Pastor Ralph @ Aug 16 2008, 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Q2. (Romans 7:7-8) The law reveals sin for what it is. Why wouldn't we be better off just not knowing that we should not covet, for example? Why does the flesh respond to being told "Do not covet" by coveting all the more?

We know that coveting is a sin, it causes us to want or have a desire to have something that God has lent to some one else doing their stay here on this side, this earth journey. But if it had not been for the law we would not have known this, because the law reveals sin, provokes sin, and condems sin we have a clear understanding of what coveting is. God would not have His prize creation ignorant unto the cures of sins we make . So once again we find our understanding of "Study To Show Ourselves approved" the way to understanding God's requirements from us His prize creation. As we do wrong the Bible points out the sin that we do by name and we begain to see and notice them and be able to understand them as just what they are sins against God.
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#12 User is offline   RickJW

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 10:12 PM

QUOTE(Pastor Ralph @ Aug 15 2008, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Q2. (Romans 7:7-8) The law reveals sin for what it is. Why wouldn't we be better off just not knowing that we should not covet, for example? Why does the flesh respond to being told "Do not covet" by coveting all the more?


While before the law was handed down through Moses we did not have names for sin, the actions prohibited by the ten commandments were detrimental to ourselves. As Dr Ralph says in the lesson, "When we are blissfully ignorant of our sins, that doesn't keep them from being wrong or harmful to ourselves and others." The law puts sinful actions in the spotlight, it does not make a certain action harmful or sinful. For example, the is no law that says we cannot hold our hand over a candle flame, still, it is harmful to the flesh. It is in man's nature to want to do that which is forbidden. This goes back to the original sin and the fall of man. By being forbidden to eat from the tree in Eden, made that fruit all the more desireable.

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#13 User is online   JanMary

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Post icon  Posted 20 October 2008 - 10:45 PM

Q2. (Romans 7:7-8) The law reveals sin for what it is. Why wouldn't we be better off just not knowing that we should not covet, for example?

If we didn't know we were sinners we wouldn't know we need a Savior...we would be dead in our sins, believing we're ok with God.

Why does the flesh respond to being told "Do not covet" by coveting all the more?

Our flesh is fallen and in rebellion against God...we want to do what we want to do...like 2 year olds who are told not to touch the stove, are suddenly determined to touch it. The human will is what God gave us to exercise....but since The Fall of Adam and Eve, it is unregenerate and anti God, until we surrender it to the obedience of Christ. Only then do we desire to live a righteous life, and then it's a moment by moment choice to do my own thing or to do His will.
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#14 User is offline   charisbarak

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 01:31 AM

We would not be able to see how wrong it is to covet. Since it is a natural sinful desire, we would not have recognized it for what it was.

Our flesh responds to our fleshly desires & we try to correct it in the flesh. In doing so, our attention is on "not doing something" and we become aware of it every hour in our lives and it increases rather than decreases in importance to us.
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#15 User is offline   smurf1948

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 10:06 AM

Q2. (Romans 7:7-8) The law reveals sin for what it is. Why wouldn't we be better off just not knowing that we should not covet, for example? Why does the flesh respond to being told "Do not covet" by coveting all the more?


If the laws were not revealed to us we wouldn't know what we were doing was sin. We might just think of it as a character flaw or something. By knowing and having the Holy Spirit we can avoid those things that are sin.

Our sinful nature along with the devil wants what we can't have therefore we go towards the sinful stuff. With the Holy spirit we don't have gravitate toward sin anymore.
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#16 User is offline   Delivered

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Post icon  Posted 21 October 2008 - 05:31 PM

Q2. (Romans 7:7-8) The law reveals sin for what it is. Why wouldn't we be better off just not knowing that we should not covet, for example?
If we were not aware of God's Holy law, we would continue as before, living in those
unforbidden desires that are found deep inside our carnal hearts, with its reward of death following afterwards.

The Law showed us, we are not better off not knowing, we must know the truth!
And when we find the truth, we must act on it, then and only then will we understand
the importance of knowing God's Holy Law.

Why does, flesh respond to being told "Do not covet" by coveting all the more?
The flesh is at home doing what it pleases to do. For now that we know the importance of God's law,
for it teaches us how to please Him instead of Self, and we become aware of the fact,
we are in need of a heart operation!

We have lived in this corrupt stage for so long, following after the **** found in the heart of man,
we need help to overcome what the flesh has been telling us to do, and to do what God tells us to do,
so we covet all the more. HELP! - I found it in the love of God, seen in Hs Son, Jesus.
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#17 User is offline   masika

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 05:59 PM

Q2. (Romans 7:7-8) The law reveals sin for what it is. Why wouldn't we be better off just not knowing that we should not covet, for example? Why does the flesh respond to being told "Do not covet" by coveting all the more?
If God had not revealed himself by this law, we should have done precisely what many nations of the earth have done, who have not had this revelation-put darkness for light, and sin for acts of holiness. While the human heart is its own measure it will rate its workings according to its own propensities; for itself is its highest rule. But when God gives a true insight of his own perfections, to be applied as a rule both of passion and practice, then sin is discovered, and discovered too, to be exceedingly sinful. So strong propensities, because they appear to be inherent in our nature, would have passed for natural and necessary operations; and their sinfulness would not have been discovered, if the law had not said, Thou shalt not covet; and thus determined that the propensity itself, as well as its outward operations, is sinful. The law is the straight edge which determines the quantum of obliquity in the crooked line to which it is applied.
It is natural for man to do what is unlawful, and to desire especially to do that which is forbidden. The heathens have remarked this propensity in man.

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#18 User is offline   Sarah43

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 12:51 AM

Q2. (Romans 7:7-8) The law reveals sin for what it is. Why wouldn't we be better off just not knowing that we should not covet, for example? Why does the flesh respond to being told "Do not covet" by coveting all the more?

Embodied, we are sinful whether we know what sin is or not. We would sin either way. The flesh responds to the law because of wilfulness, inherited through and from Adam. Only faith and grace show us the way out.


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#19 User is offline   servant for Christ

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 03:09 AM

QUOTE(Pastor Ralph @ Aug 16 2008, 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Q2. (Romans 7:7-8) The law reveals sin for what it is. Why wouldn't we be better off just not knowing that we should not covet, for example? Why does the flesh respond to being told "Do not covet" by coveting all the more?

If the law did not reveal sin for it is, we would not realize how sinful we are and that it keeps us from having a relationship with our Lord. When we covet, the flesh is controlling our body, the wants, the desires and it hurts other people. When the flesh is told not to cover, it rises up in rebellion, our sinful nature wants to do regardless of the effects or who it hurts. Even when we are made aware of our sins, we still do not have control. Only the Holy Spirit living is us can help us control our sinful nature.
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#20 User is offline   June

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 11:08 PM

We wouldn't know it was sin without the law. It was an unkind act but after the law it was considered a sin against God.
The flesh & tthe spirit are at war constantly. The flesh is the enemy of our souls, thus always at war with each other. We must let the spirit control our thoughts, deeds, and words.
The flesh likes to control, so we must die out to sin.The human is rebellious against God. We still have a sinful nature, and being told not to do something we do all the more. We struggle with the flesh daily. We can not do what only God and The Holy Spirit can do, so we need to pray for intervention and allow Them to work in us and through us. Die out to sin and be grateful for what we have. Greed is a sin also.
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