[Pastor Ralph]

Dear friends, since this is a topic in which various Christ-loving groups disagree, let's be especially careful to state our views with Christian love and gentleness. Denomination bashing and unloving attitudes are cause for suspension of Forum privileges.

Q5. (1 Timothy 2:11-15) How should Paul's instructions about women teaching and leading in the church be applied in the twenty-first century? How do you support your view?

[iam4-1god]

Q5. (1 Timothy 2:11-15) How should Paul's instructions about women teaching and leading in the church be applied in the twenty-first century? How do you support your view?

The way I see it, and I could be wrong, is the man is suppose to take care of the house-be a provider, make sure that Godly wisdom prevails, etc. The woman is his captain, in that she should make sure that everything goes smoothly. Pay bills, buy groceries, etc. Now, in the time we live in, it's hard for this to happen, cause it takes two incomes, and both parents are gone. I grew up in a house where both parents worked, but rules were obeyed. My Mom and Dad are home now, but when they were here, I better tow the line, even after I was grown. My parents did it and they were successful.

Anyway, I don' think it's right for women to preach because men are the head of the house. That's just me, and I could be wrong. I hope my answer doesn't hurt anyone.

[Eudora]

Q5. (1 Timothy 2:11-15) How should Paul's instructions about women teaching and leading in the church be applied in the twenty-first century? How do you support your view?

The letters that Paul wrote are easier for me if I re-write them based on what I understand him to be saying.

Likewise that women dress modesty with reverence & soundness of mind not focusing on an outward appearance of what she is wearing, but professing godliness, devoting herself to good deeds, positioning her in quiet attractiveness. I do not let the women teach or dominate men, but to be still. There is a reason that God created Adam first before Eve. It was the woman that was deceived by satan and not Adam; that resulted in sin. Yet, she will be made whole through her maternal duties with faith, love and soundness of mind. 1 Timothy 2:9-15

We must keep in mind, this was the beginning of the early church, not somewhere in the middle or even near the middle; but the beginnings. First of all, since the women did not go to school, they were not trained but in only what they were just now hearing. These men, these apostles had three years of training with Jesus Himself and no more than that, but of course, no less. Most of the 12 were fishermen. Paul himself was a Roman soldier, so this really was the beginning. In the first century , women were not trained in scripture so how could they be allowed to teach? But I hardly think that they did not teach their children. Do we think that Mary did not teach young Jesus as a boy? What Paul was offering women was quite extraordinary really. They were not mature yet in their faith, but yet we read as Pastor Ralph has shared that women did prophecy.

Paul didn’t forbid women to teach, he only forbid those who were not trained to teach publicly. Timothy himself was indebted for his knowledge in the things of God to his mother and grandmother. 2Timothy 1:5 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also. they did however teach privately like Priscilla did Apollos. A women who believed could teach her inquiring husband, but only when he inquired a reason of her faith. She was not to challenge him in his faith or lack there of because this would usurp his authority. It is not in the beauty of a woman to Lord anything over her husband. Women were active in the gospel work of that period, but no so much in the public arena. If a women was under the authority and teaching of a man, she was to remain silent. Had this been spoken to Eve, where might we all be now? I often wonder why Adam didn’t tell his wife or at least remind her of God’s command. Many folks over look the fact that when she did eat, Adam was right there with her.

Genesis 3:6 ¶ And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

She looked at it, made a conscience decision that it looked good and saw that it was pleasant and the thought that it would make her wise tempted her too. So she took it and ate it and handed the un-forbidden fruit to her husband who was right there with her and he ate it too. Women always rationalize a situation to this day and most men, just re-act, based on her rationale. Most men don’t even stop to rationalize most situations on their own. They usually just act upon their instincts.

Women were to learn from their husbands. It was permissible for the men to ask questions while in public assemblies while being taught but it was not acceptable for women to do so. They were to wait until they got home and ask their husbands. I firmly believe that this kept the peace in the home and less noise in the assembly. Jewish men will hash something completely. They will cut it, dice it and slice it and maybe still not come up with an agreeable answer or solution.

1Corinthians 14:34-35 ¶ Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church..

I still agree with Paul, but there are times that I want to raise my hand right in the middle of service sometimes to ask why my Pastor teaches things in the way he does. If I waited till after church were over, which I do, the momentum is gone . I just go back to the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to me. My Pastor is young, so I just don’t make waves. I think this was a wise teaching of Paul to Timothy and the young church and still to this day. If a man is not bothered by a women's teaching, then by all means, go see folks like those women who preach from the Bible and adhere their lives accordingly. If she is married, I personally have a bit of a scriptural problem with that. Until God shows me differently, I will remain silent. I would love to teach the Bible, but only to women who inquire of the knowledge that I am afforded by the scripture, revealed by the leading of the Spirit.

[pastornpw]

I don't profess to have all knowledge and certainly don't have a definitive answer for this hot button topic.
My personal view is that this was a specific situation and not for women in general and for all time.
I personally find it humorous that churches will forbid women to teach from the pulpit but sent them to the basement to teach their children. I would rather hear them from the pulpit and know that my child was receiving sound doctrine.
Anyhow I digress, how do we apply this to our culture today? Very carefully, there are many different views on this and my position is to tread carefully.

[God's grace]

Personally this instruction of Paul to the women doesn't cause any worry for me because I grew up in a country where society is matriarchal in so many aspects, but t doesn't mean that I should ignore such instruction. I was just blessed to grew up in a church where women are regarded with equality with the men when it comes to "calling" and "gifting" . Me and my husband are partners in the ministry where I teach and He preaches.

[Just Jesus]

Dear friends, since this is a topic in which various Christ-loving groups disagree, let's be especially careful to state our views with Christian love and gentleness. Denomination bashing and unloving attitudes are cause for suspension of Forum privileges.

Q5. (1 Timothy 2:11-15) How should Paul's instructions about women teaching and leading in the church be applied in the twenty-first century? How do you support your view?

Q5. (1 Timothy 2:11-15) How should Paul's instructions about women teaching and leading in the church be applied in the twenty-first century?

Very carefully. We need to make a distinction between something being “cultural” (such as braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes/jewelry) versus “applicable in all situations” (Do not commit adultery, etc). The other side of the coin is if something written in the Bible is applicable to our time, which this is, how do we interpret it without ignoring/changing the Biblical message. If we can ignore/change certain parts of the Bible to accommodate our situation/position, what about the rest? Jesus Himself did not relax in His attitude towards the truth, should we?



How do you support your view?

No matter which argument is supported, the Bible says that if something is not of God it will come to nothing (Psalm 127:1), and there are anointed Christian women today with powerful ministeries, e.g. Joyce Meyer. I believe the primary purpose for any Christian ministry needs to be to (1) glorify God, and (2) bring the message of salvation across. Quite simply, 2000 years after the crucifixion, half of the world has still not heard the gospel of Jesus Christ. Does it matter how it gets to them?

[debbine]

I cannot specifically say, but I believe if a woman is gifted through the holy spirit and she can teach why not let her. As long as she is teaching/preaching the true gospel of Christ and "men" want to listen I do not see any problems. As I've stated in my introduction my mom is a minister along with a few aunts. I've been raised with both.

[Elwood C O'Dell]

I agree with Dr. Wilson on this issue. I too feel that the “gifting” argument is the most compelling of all those offered. I feel the Holy Spirit does empower both men and women with a calling to share in the ministry of proclaiming God’s Word through a preaching / teaching ministry.

[charisbarak]

I believe that what Paul wrote then is good for us. We're somewhat different culturally, but have some of the same problems=taking over the authority God has given to men. In doing that, the woman places herself under direct authority of God which she was never intended to have.

I enjoy teaching children in Sunday School. I like leading Bible studies for women. On the mission field there is often no choice but that the gifted woman has to teach men--knowing God will raise up a man one day to take over.
But I like being under the ultimate authority of the man--who has to directly answer to God for my well-being!

[Delivered]

Q5. (1 Timothy 2:11-15) How should Paul's instructions about women teaching and leading in the church be applied in the twenty-first century?
I don't read Paul's teaching to be, all women, at all times, are never to teach. Remember,
God is the one that puts the calling upon us.

How do you support your view?
I remember Paul commending Priscilla, a co-worker, for teaching Apollos, the great preacher - Acts 18:24-26

Paul mentioned many other women who held positions of responsibility in the church,
so, I believe paul was prohibiting the Ephesian women, at this time, for this reason.
In the first century Jewish culture, women in general, were not allowed to study, therefore they did not have the knowledge or experience to teach. The church already had a big problem - false teaching being taught - this is a important reason Paul would not let the women to teach; instead, he instructed them to study, something they did not do, so they would not be deceived by false teaching. (good advice for us today)

Today, women have every opportunity to study God's word, to prepare for the ministry.
If God puts His calling on a person, being man, or women, that person should take the calling seriously.
I would go so far as warning any pastor to think twice before saying no to that person.

And for those called, remember, there is great responsibility that goes with teaching or preaching God's word.
Each one will be held accountable for what they teach.

[Stan]

Q5. (1 Timothy 2:11-15) How should Paul's instructions about women teaching and leading in the church be applied in the twenty-first century? How do you support your view?


Pastor, I don't think it applies to our churches today. In Paul's day most church were in homes of the christian leaders, women serving food to their families might have heard only part of the teachings and interjected ideas that were not in line with Christ and His teaching, this could have been why Paul told them to ask their husbands at home. Like you stated being uneducated could also have led to the problem. Today our women are in most instances smarter than men and often have sounder reasoning so they are capable of leadership and teaching from my point of view. I understand that this is still not the case in someparts of our modern world but here I believe it to be so.

[nes]

Dear friends, since this is a topic in which various Christ-loving groups disagree, let's be especially careful to state our views with Christian love and gentleness. Denomination bashing and unloving attitudes are cause for suspension of Forum privileges.

Q5. (1 Timothy 2:11-15) How should Paul's instructions about women teaching and leading in the church be applied in the twenty-first century? How do you support your view?

In my own personal view women could teach and lead in the church, in our time. the Paul instruction to the Ephesus woman not to lead it is because women that time has no educational knowledge, that is why they are easily to deceive by the false teaching. in 21st century church mostly women are well educated and gifted.

[Greta]

I think that if a woman has a special calling and gifting from God, then she needs to obey God, 'for God knows the plans He has for us'. If the calling is not from God, then it will come to nothing. Men also need to have a special 'calling' from God and we, the congregation, submit ourselves to the Pastors.

We have 3 Pastors in our church and the preaching is mainly done by these three men. There are also three ladies in our church who very occasionally, if they feel that God has given them a special Word for the Church, have been invited by the senior Pastor to give this Word. This maybe happens about once a year. Our services and our worship are lead by men and this works very well for us, praise God.

[Moses 4]

Q5. (1 Timothy 2:11-15) How should Paul's instructions about women teaching and leading in the church be applied in the twenty-first century? How do you support your view?
If verse 11 Paul refer to an individual, unnamed woman who was teaching false doctrine and not to women in general,
According to Paul, women must be [size="3"]learners, and are not allowed to be public teachers in the church; for teaching is an office of authority, and the woman must not usurp authority over the man, but is to be in silence.
But, notwithstanding this prohibition, good women may and ought to teach their children at home the principles of religion. Timothy from a child had known the Holy Scriptures; and who should teach him but his mother and grandmother?
If verse 15 were not included in the text, one could easily get the idea that women are inferior to men or worse -- that women are beyond hope. Paul uses verse 15 to encourage women that they will be saved also in their God-ordained role as women and their valid ministry roles in the church. Paul's use of "childbearing" (NKJV) is a figure of speech

Pax

[raider]

This is my view I don't feel this is applicable to our time. Ifeel that Christian menistry should glorify God,and bring the message of salvation. There are Christian women today with powerful ministeries that do that.

[JustJeff]

Our church/mission (http://www.peoplethatlove.com) was founded, in part by a woman who became our senior pastor. She was exactly what was needed to "birth" a new church that works largely with the homeless of which the majority are men. As a strong willed matron she was able to give the tough love necessary to motivate people to become responsible citizens. I was one of those men. She was looked upon as a spiritual mother. She has passed and now, all of the men who lead the ministry owe their response to the Lord's call to her seed planting. She could never had accomplished what she did without the annointing from Jesus.
Everything in the bible has to be taken in context to the time it was written. Culture has evolved to the twenty first century and is vastly different than that of Paul's day. What Paul wrote is applicable to men and women alike as we are all required to use our gifts as our Savior has given them to us (Romans 12:4-21)

[masika]

Q5. (1 Timothy 2:11-15) How should Paul's instructions about women teaching and leading in the church be applied in the twenty-first century? How do you support your view?
By God's grace, all men and women who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ receive spiritual gifts to equip them to serve together in Christ's body-the church. God grants these gifts through his Spirit to all believers without distinction and for the edification of all (1 Cor 12:4-11). No member of Christ's church is unneeded; each is gifted by God's will so that the church, though many parts, may be one body (1 Cor 12:12-26).
In particular, the Bible affirms the valuable and necessary role of women serving in Christian ministry.2 A church in which women are not encouraged and granted opportunity to serve as vital members of the Christian community is both disobedient and unhealthy. Yet, while every believer is equipped by the Holy Spirit indiscriminate of gender, how each man or woman serves the church falls under the framework of Scripture. God's word is clear in its affirmation of women in ministry, yet it also gives specific instruction regarding the roles of men and women in the church.
Thus, according to Scripture, Christian women are called by God to serve the church, with the exception of teaching or having authority over men in the church.3
However, it is not always clear how this biblical teaching applies in a given ministry context. The first century church did not have the various ministry positions, both inside and outside of the local church, that are present in our Christian communities today. The early church had no Sunday school teachers, music ministers, or seminary professors, so the Bible does not address these ministries as such. But this does not mean we can simply ignore what Scripture does say about men and women serving together in the body of Christ. Rather, we must relate the unchanging truths of Scripture to our contemporary ministry circumstances. We hope the following will serve as practical advice for specific ministry positions to assist believers, churches, and other Christian organizations in applying God's word for the good of his church and the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[clement]

Q5. (1 Timothy 2:11-15) How should Paul's instructions about women teaching and leading in the church be applied in the twenty-first century? How do you support your view?
[/quote]

1 tim 2:11-15 has to be read and interpreted according to the context of its time - namely women during that age were mostly unschooled and therefore lack necessary training to assume leadership positions, and secondly they would be actively involved in the day to day running of their own families to be able to commit themselves effectively for ministry.

since then, times have changed. today, women are out-performing the men at school - just crunch the numbers at any acedemic institutions; anywhere. some are even exceling at male-dominated professions like engineering, hard sciences etc though they remain in the minority due to differences in sexual endowments.

women were and are designed to complement - not compete with men. personally, i have observed in 10 years of ministry as a missionary that the sisters are indispensable as support/back-up as they are naturally multi-taskers. indeed, 99% of secretaries are females. why? because they are able to do so much all at once! we men would crash & hang given the same multi-tasks to perform.

amen?

however, men are more focussed and know what they want & need - just look at shopping patterns. men do not browse/window-shop as much as women. we go in, take what we want/need; pay-up and are out in 30 mins? women can spend the whole day at the mall, because its part of the fun for them? and wow! so many distractions

i remember a lame joke of a women at the mall eyeing a translucent dress; and the husband in way of discouragement telling her :-

"honey, you can see-through it!"

to which the wife replied,

"not when i'm wearing it...."

or what about most women's eternal struggle with having a wardrobe full of nothing to wear? anyone still remember imelda marcos' three thousand pairs of designer shoes & endless handbag collection?

the present-day church should not; and must not have anything against women leadership in any capacity whatsoever. the sole yardstick being; and in conclusion i quote john c. maxwell :-

1) know the Way

2) show the Way &

3) go the Way

amen?

[hanks]

Q5. (1Timothy 2:11-15)
How should Paul's instructions about women teaching and leading in the church be applied in the twenty-first century? How do you support your view?
We know from Scripture that a fundamental principle of God’s dealings with mankind is that man has been given authority over the woman. This in no way suggests that she is inferior in any way. It determines the different roles each has to play; as determined by God. There were also unique conditions in the early church at Ephesus at that time. There were false teachers from within the church as well as from the outside. There was in-fighting, and women usurping authority which also resulted in fighting. The women at that time were suppressed and mostly illiterate; the church had to deal with paganism; unholy leaders; and godless living patterns; among other things. It is with this in mind that Paul gave instructions as to the role of women in the church. Perhaps all or some of the above conditions do not apply to most of our churches today. We must also consider that the Holy Spirit has gifted some woman with exceptional gifts for teaching and leadership - it is not for us to deny them utilising these gifts.

[Helen Williams]

Q5. (1 Timothy 2:11-15) How should Paul's instructions about women teaching and leading in the church be applied in the twenty-first century? How do you support your view?

Isn't is great that God loves us all. Glory be to God. We know in Paul's time women were viewed differently than they are today. I agree with Paul that women should learn. We as women should have the right attitude and manner when learning. We want to be submissive and not in an unruly manner.

In the last days, God is pouring His spirit upon all mankind. We should all work together to get the Good News out to a dying world. Let us all go forth and be SERVANTS.