Pastor Ralph Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 Q2. (Revelation 6:9-11) What do we learn about the Church from what is revealed in the Fifth Seal? Where are these "souls" at the time of this scene? What does their proximity to the altar signify? Why were they killed? Why do they ask for vengeance? Is that a Christian prayer? What does the white robe represent? What do we learn from their instruction to "wait a little longer"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cct1106 Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesus4al Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Q2. (Revelation 6:9-11) What do we learn about the Church from what is revealed in the Fifth Seal? Where are these "souls" at the time of this scene? What does their proximity to the altar signify? Why were they killed? Why do they ask for vengeance? Is that a Christian prayer? What does the white robe represent? What do we learn from their instruction to "wait a little longer"? What we learn about the Church is that we're still here at that point; (opening of the 5th. seal) with more yet to be martyred. I believe that the martyred souls are with Jesus, with many more yet to join them. They were killed and continue to die for their belief in The Bible, for their faith in Jesus Christ. Unable, or unwilling, to renounce their Savior, Jesus Christ, they continue to accept, the only offered alternative, death. Why they ask for vengence could be that they know the our God is a just God, and will demand justice. "Thy will be done."The white robes could represent or symbolize purity, honesty, unselfishness, and love. All I know about "waiting a little longer" is that I'm so glad that the waiting period is still going on ... this gives me an opportunity to Evangelize, to be or service! Bringing people to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ brings me the most joy. Love ... Bro. Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Spaulding Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 The church has maintained their testimony during these end times and many were martyred for their faith. At this time, their souls are under the altar--sacrificed for their Lord. Their position shows their lives were a sacred sacrifice on the Lord's altar. They ask for vengence, for God has said He will avenge evil against His elect. Yes, it is Biblical. God has told us we are not to avenge ourselves--that this is His perogative. What does the white robe represent? The purity of Christ that will be given to Christians to designate their relationship to Christ and His salvation that He gives them. God tells them to wait a little longer until the end of time when He returns in Glory to bring in His Kingdom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguilar-j Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 We learn that there is still more to be revealed in our lives The souls that have lived by the Word of God are indeed by His side and signify that God's promises are truth since God is Truth. They were killed because they were faithful to the Word "Be faithful until death" Vengeance comes from lock of knoweledge of God's plan Christian prayer is of forgiveness The white robe represents the purity of God's enviroment We must learn to wait for God's plans for ourlives and while we are doing that we can add goodness to our faith. "Thy Will not mine be done" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candygoo58 Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 People will still come to Jesus during the tribualtion. They will live through the whole world. It signifies the prayers of the saints. They were killed for their beliefs. They wanted thier suffering to end. Yes it was a christians prayer. The white robe stands for the rightousness of the saints before God. All things are done in God's time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccs Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 Q2. (Revelation 6:9-11) What do we learn about the Church from what is revealed in the Fifth Seal? Where are these "souls" at the time of this scene? What does their proximity to the altar signify? Why were they killed? Why do they ask for vengeance? Is that a Christian prayer? What does the white robe represent? What do we learn from their instruction to "wait a little longer"? What do we learn about the Church from what is revealed in the Fifth Seal? Christian persecution and martyrdom is inevitable in the end times. Where are these "souls" at the time of this scene? Under the altar, they were near God What does their proximity to the altar signify? That they were in a Spiritual warfare and died as soldiers thus, being seen as a sacrifice to God Why were they killed? They were killed for their testimony of Jesus Why do they ask for vengeance? They do not want to see anymore die for the testimony of their faith and are asking God for justice and vindication to be done. Is that a Christian prayer? Yes, because they are crying out to God and trusting in Him to do what is best. Romans 12:19 What does the white robe represent? Overcoming sin and being cleansed by the blood of Christ What do we learn from their instruction to "wait a little longer"? That everything happens in God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Williams Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 I learn that God protects His own spiritually. In the flesh we may suffer maybe even until death but in the spirit we are secure. The altar represent the altar of sacrifice in the temple where animals were sacrifice. John saw souls of martyrs underneath the altar who had died for preaching the Word of God. They are committed into the hand of Christ. They were eager to bring justice to the earth but they were told to wait. There are others to come who has remain faithful. It is a christian prayer for true justice, but God works on his own timetable and He promise justice. No suffering for the sake of God's kingdom is wasted effort. White robes: Pure from all spots and shining with glory. Wait A Little Longer: Wait until the number is complete As the body of Chrsit we are to remain faithful and true to God. We may suffer in the flesh because of the gospel, maybe even death but we are secure in the spirit. May harm the body but not the soul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddames Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 What do we learn about the Church from what is revealed in the Fifth Seal? Where are these "souls" at the time of this scene? What does their proximity to the altar signify? Why do they ask for vengeance? Is that a Christian prayer? What does the white robe represent? What do we learn from their instruction to "wait a little longer"? I just completed a seminar on "Know What You Believe" dealing with the end times. They talked about martyrdom and persecution occuring routinely. The "souls" appeared to be close to God, near the altar, and because of this proximity, were sacrificed to God as soldiers involved in spiritual battle. Their cries of vengence is a means of asking God to act with judgement and vindication, avoiding any more bloodshed resulting from their testimony. I believe the prayer is Christian because they are trusting the Lord to do what is right and just. The white robe appears to signify the cleansing of sin by Christ's blood. By waiting we are practicing our faith in God. Everything happens according to God's plan and we must be patient and obedient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxie Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 Q2. (Revelation 6:9-11) What do we learn about the Church from what is revealed in the Fifth Seal? Where are these "souls" at the time of this scene? What does their proximity to the altar signify? Why were they killed? Why do they ask for vengeance? Is that a Christian prayer? What does the white robe represent? What do we learn from their instruction to "wait a little longer"? ____________________________________________________________ The fifth seal presents the martyrdom of the saints through out the world. Many will be killed by satanic opposition to their testimony of Christ. This was the Golden Altar of incense before the Throne. They were asking God to fulfil His promise, and bring judgment upon the one's that had slain them. The white robes represents their purity. God's promises had yet been fulfilled. Their were still saints that had yet to be martyred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckghayden Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 "Under the alter" signifies the place of close communion with God. They are martyrs who gave their lives to Christ, but they are sheltered close to God and hve communion with Him. They pray for God to avenge them which is consistent with biblical teaching. We must not avenge ourselves. They are consoled with a white robe, the garb of rightousness in God's sight and told to wait awhile. God has his own purposes and schedule so His people are to be patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 What do we learn about the Church from what is revealed in the Fifth Seal? Where are these "souls" at the time of this scene? What does their proximity to the altar signify?Why are they killed? Why do they ask for vengeance? Is that a Christian prayer? What does the white robe represent? What do we learn from their instruction to "wait a little longer"? A. Tells me that some had been martyled B. Under the Altar C. Their sacrifice D. Testifying about Jesus E. For they desire to be with the Lord. F. Yes G. Pure-Blamless H. There is more of us to be martyled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darleen Nelson Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 We learn about the martyrs of the church who were persecuted for their beliefs. Their souls were under the altar where the animals were sacrified for securing of forgiveness and commemorating other acts of God such as thank offerings. The proximity to the altar shows they were sacrificed because of their strong beliefs about God and His relationship with them. The cry for revenge is in line with God's warning not to touch his annointed or do them any harm. The white robes signify purity. The command to wait shows that God's time is not the same as our time and we must allow Him to do things at the time that is right for His plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Stanley Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 John saw the souls of martyrs who had died for preaching the gospel.Through him from Christ this was revealed to the Church. The souls of martyrs are under the altar.To me their proximity to the altar signifies their immediate nearness to Jesus Christ.They died for Jesus Christ and what he stood for."They are in waiting".Given a white robe,and they were told to wait a little longer until their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed. I would say that the christian prayers is not for vengeance but for defending their rights and justification. The white robe represents being clothed with the righteousness of Christ. We are to be patient,in waiting.Continue doing what Christ needs us to do,and to stand firm in what we believe. We represent Christ,and as believers we are clothed in the garment of righteousness,"The White Robe".Lord Jesus help us all to be worthy.Blessings Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn Rivington Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 . This passage reveals that the Church is still here, not yet raptured. . The souls are under the altar. They offered the gift of their life. (Matthew 5:23) . Close to the Holy Place and close to God. . They were killed for their confession of loyalty to Christ as opposed to emperor worship. . God says, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emy Oliveros Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 What we learn about the Church from what is revealed in the fifth seal is that persecution and martyrdom is inevitable in the end times. Christians will be slain for the word of God and for the testimony that they hold, as it is happening nowadays for we say we are now living in the last days. At the time of this scene, these "souls" are "under the altar" seen as a sacrifice to God. They were killed for the word of God and for the testimony which they held, not loving their lives even to death. Praise the Lord! They ask vengeance for justice on what they've been through and for the blood shed on those who dwell on the earth. I think that's a Christian prayer, to let them know that there is God who avenge for His people and honor those who had given their lives for His name sake. Revelation 3:5 says: "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." The white robe represents victory, they are overcomers and faithful witnesses of God and they were made worthy to be in the presence of God. We learn from their instruction to "wait a little longer" that both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who would be killed as they were is not yet complete. And this means that we have to be prepared for persecutions even unto death in our time and remain faithful and committed unto the Lord because as they suffered, we will experience the same. Only we are asked to hold on to the Word of God and to our testimony of Him, and we will overcome the enemy by the blood of the Lamb and not to love our lives even unto death. May the Lord strengthen us and guide us and give us wisdom everyday as we do His will here on earth and in our lives. Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennLady01 Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 We learn that others shall except Christ as thier Savior and Lord even after the tribulaion begin. The church will be added to even then. They shall be through out all the world. It signifies the prayers of the saints. Because of their testamony of Christ they where killed. Because of the suffering they went through. Jesus said vengence belongs to him. The white robes are the righteouness of the saints. All things are done in God's time not ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 My interpretation from the reading is that the Church will suffer persecution until the Lord comes for his church. I felt that the souls were in heaven, and their proximity to the altar signifies that believers are willing to be sacraficed for the Lord. They were killed for their faith and preaching their faith to others. I believe they were asking for vengeance because the Lord promises it to all believers who are persecuted in his name. Don't know where the prayers are, but there are many prayers in the bible asking the Lord for his vengeance against the enemy. The white robe singles out the martyrs who died for the Lord. I believe the Lord ask them to wait, because of his mercy and love for others who will come to him at the final moment. God loves his people so much that he is giving them the opportunity to come to him before the wrath of his final judgement. Praise be to God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glynis Bredenkamp Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 The fith seal shows us that the Church will be persecuted and will be Matyred. Matthey 29:9 "Then you will be tortured, killed and hated all over the world because you are Mine" (Living Bible) The matyred "Souls" are home with Christ, (Heaven) 2Cor. 5:8 "We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord" (N.I.V.) Italics mine. Their proximity to the Alter signifys that they were "Sacrificed"for their belief. This alter could be the Sacrificial Alter mentioned in the O.T. The annimals were sacrificed on the alter and their blood ran dowwn under the alter. It could also depict the sacrifice of The Lamb of God on the alter & those souls sitting under the alter (close to Him) would be washed clean by His Blood and are with Him for eternity. Their cry for vengence is a prayer for God's justice and righteousness to prevail on earth against sinful man. The white robes of the souls signifies their fully redeemed state. They are asked to wait a little while longer in order that God completes what He has promised to do and in His own time. From this we too can learn to be patient and "wait on the Lord". In Christ, Glynis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 I believe this passage tells us that there will be believers who will be Tribulation believers ( I hope to be raptured before this but I'm not sure if this means us the church or believers after the rapture also the church since believers are the church). Anyway the church is alive during this time. These souls spoken of are in the most holy place at the foot of Christ in heaven. They were killed as martyrs for the testimony of the Word. Matthew Henry says "God has provided a good place in the better world for those who are faithful to death and are not allowed a place anylonger on earth". I think the proximity to the altar is a pretty good place. And it signifies how God feels about those martyred for the Word. The robes represent purity (washed in the blood). J Vernon McGee believes the blood of Christ is in heaven. He confirms that with Hebrews 9:23-24. He also believes these are the souls of Old Testament saints and included with those are are those who will be slain during the Great Trib. Period. Matthew Henry says the white robes are robes of victory and honour. Whatever they (the souls) are washed by the blood if they are in heaven. Matthew Henry also puts it this way about their cry for justice "Even the spirits of just men made perfect retain a proper resentment of the wrong they have sustained by their cruel enemies" They leave vengeance to God however. They are told to wait until other s to be martyred should be completed. God Bless Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Beth Whittam Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 The slain Christians were sacrifice because they obed God and gave out the gospel. They were asked to wait awhile longer for the rest of the marted Christian that would becoming soon. What we learn from these slain Christians is to continue to be faithful to the gospel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggsandbacon Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 I get the picture that it willbe very dangerous to be a believer in those days. The souls are in the protection of God, under is alter. This is the closest place to be. Christ is there. They wrwe killed for talking about Jesus as savior, Gods standards of living and anything else that offends non believers. They are asking for vengence because the only one that can do it is God. there is no justice for the believer but from Christ. We should ask it of God and not from the systems run on earth. I believe that the christian has a place for vengence and that is for God only because only He can do it without causing more hurt. God is perfect so his justice is perfect. His vengence is His alone. The white robe repersents a sinless state, pure, perfect in the eyes of God. When God says wait a little longer I get the message it will not be long, could be any day. Also it is not up to those that deserve justice it is up to God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heatherdills Posted October 16, 2003 Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 From what is revealed in the Fifth Seal the Church has "lost" its faithful on earth. These souls are under the alter in Heaven. Their proximity to the alter signifies they are close to God. They were killed because of their witness. They ask for vengeance because the ones left are the ones that had killed them. It is a Christian prayer only if it fulfills God's purpose, and in this case it does. The white robe represents holiness. From their instruction to "wait a little longer" we learn that God demands obedience and patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ora Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 CHRIST IS OVER US WHEN HE SHED HIS BLOOD FOR US. THE OTHER SOULS ARE WITH CHRIST JESUS UNDER THE ALTAR, THEY WERE MARTYRS DIEING FOR CHRIST . WE HAVE TO ASK FOR FORGIVNESS,VENGEANCE IS OF THE LORD JESUS ; HE IS GIVING US A CHANCE TO GET RIGHT WITH HIM. THE WHITE ROBES IS THE PURITY AND RIGHTEOUNESS , WE HAVE TO WAIT ON GOD TIMING BECAUSE IT IS A SPIRITUAL WAR WHICH GOD SAID HE WOULD DO, WE JUST HAVE TO WAIT ON HIM IN FAITH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitty Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 The church is bold to be a witness and a testimony of God. The souls are under the altar. The proximity to the altar signify that they were children of God, and under the blood. They were killed because of their testimony. For not dening Jesus as Lord. They asked for vengence because they were killed for their faith. This can be a chritians prayer. The white robe represents that our sins have been washed by the blood. The robe is our Heavonly clothes. We learn from the instructions to be very patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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