Pastor Ralph Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Q1. (3:1) Why is submission so difficult for us humans? Does submission require you to be silent when you don't agree or feel something can be improved? When is submission wrong for Christian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 Q1. (3:1) Why is submission so difficult for us humans? I maybe way off on this but I feel it's because we don't like being told what to do. We want things our way. Sometimes, no matter what it may hold for us. Does submission require you to be silent when you don't agree or feel something can be improved? No, we always have a say in what we do. It's our actions on how we deal with the subject. We pray to God for our conduct to be God like. When is submission wrong for Christian? When it goes outside our beliefs, we know what pleasing to our Father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don bowles Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 I am glad the question is , why is submission so hard for humans, rather than for Christians ? In order to understand the difficulty to submit you must return to the garden of Eden and think about the temptation satan gave to Eve. He told her she would be as god. To have difficulty in submission is to be our own deity. Frank Sinatra sang, I did it my way. This is ultimate rebellion toward God. Submission should not be without opinion. I have learned that I am to love my wife. That love has led me to respect her, I believe her submission to me is based on that love. She knows I have no desire in my heart except what is best for her. As a result, my wife not only is submissive, she also respects me. This relationship is made possible because my love for Jesus is making me submissive to God. You can not exempt the relationship you have with Jesus from the relationship you have with your spouse. Our relationship with Christ solidifies our marital relation. Submission is wrong when it requires that we go against the will of God. It was true for Adam and Eve. That has never changed. It never will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millie Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 The reason why we do not want to submission ourself because we do not want to listen, When God is talking to us we do not want to listen. We want to keep doing things own our on. When we go againt God than our submission is wrong. I believe that a man and woman who are marriage should respect one another. Let God be in their marriage, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Spaulding Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Q1. (3:1) Why is submission so difficult for us humans? Does submission require you to be silent when you don't agree or feel something can be improved? When is submission wrong for Christian? Everything about our society today teaches, "Make your mark! Show everyone how good you are! Don't knuckle under to anyone!" "Be a man!" (or woman!) Even when you don't believe such a thought, it is hard to avoid some of that rubbing off on you. You want the best grade in school--not bad until it becomes the only thing of worth to you! People scramble up the ladder of success, always sure the next rung or more money will bring happiness. In the process, if you step on someone else to get ahead--that's their problem. All this is the opposite of submission, so people come to think that is "sissy," or counter productive. No, submission does not require being silent when you feel something can be improved. But, it does require that you do so in a loving and cooperative spirit. Submission is wrong when you would have to do something that is counter to God's Word or to His guidance for you. We can never disobey His Word and be in the right. For instance, we should submit to our law and government unless it goes against what God teaches us is right. In that instance, submission would be wrong--no matter the consequences to us for disobedience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrylynn Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 I think submission may be so difficult for us because of pride. It always gets in the way of doing what's right. And Western society tells us to be assertive, stand up for your rights, put yourself first because no one else will. No, submission does not require us to be silent, however when we speak we need to speak the truth in love. Love and respect for our spouse (or anyone else) is the key. Submission is wrong for Christians when it would make us go against God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Ellen McNeill Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Sorry to have missed the past week - glad to be back! Part of our sinful nature is wanting to be number one and in charge. Submission involves a giving up of that control and a giving over to someone else. But submission in and of itself is not necessarily good. If we are not submitting to God's authority, we might be submitting ourselves to the schemes of the devil, or to the opinions of others. God asks us to be in submission to Him first and then to others (spouses, leaders, etc.) as love demands. Sometimes in that submission God will tell us to speak out or act. Other times He may tell us to wait. Part of submitting to God is trusting in Him to guide us, trusting in His goodness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt_Z_Squad Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 1a. (3:1) Why is submission so difficult for us humans? 1a. Satan provides that doubt, that question of needing God and being obedient to Him. The problem is we do not take the warnings of judgment serious enough until it's too late. We just don't believe God would punish us. We are rebellious by nature. Paul warns the church in Corinth and us; "But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cuning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ." 2 Corinthians 11:3 1b. (3:1) Does submission require you to be silent when you don't agree or feel something can be improved? 1b. No. Submission may require us to speak up to prevent something harmful from occurring to those that we are in submission to. 1c. (3:1) When is submission wrong for Christian? 1c. Any action or deed which would bring discredit or be contrary to God's expectations for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelkat Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Most of the time we all like to be in control of our thoughts, action and emotions and to be submisive means we have to put pride aside and recognize we as humans do not have all the answers. When we are submisive to our husbands we are in the will of God. When the husband is not a christian, that can relate to having God as the authority, then it would be harder to always be in a submisive mind. This would take prayer and the leading of the Holy Spirit to accomplish a submisive relationship. Therefore it works better to have a christian husband so he knows his role as head of the family and household is the same attitude as Christ is head of the church. Even so, we still do need guidiance of the Holy Spirit and prayer in order to be submisive to a godly husband or the husband to be respectful to his wife. You do not have to remain silent when you don't agree as usually no two people look at everything the same. The bible does tell us it is okay to disagree, but to not let the sun go down on anger. Submission is wrong for christians when you are asked to take part in ungodly things. Our actions are sometimes the only testament to a loving and merciful God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmclaren Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Q1. (3:1) Why is submission so difficult for us humans? Does submission require you to be silent when you don't agree or feel something can be improved? When is submission wrong for Christian? a) I think that it is difficult for humans to submit because 1) Pride: whereas humans desire to be recognized and receive glory. This was the same problem the devil fell into when he did not want to submit to God but desired the glory for himself. In submitting to another, pride does not get the glory it thinks it deserves or it has to share it. To submit voluntarily requires a dying to self or at least means putting self under subjection. Self resists submission because its very life depends on it doing what it wants and being in control. 2) Submitting voluntarily involves trust and faith. Allowing someone control of what we feel we can do for ourselves means we have to trust them that they will not take advantage of us or the situation. Not only does it involve trusting others, it involves trusting God. As Paul stated 2 Corinthians 8:5 "And [this they did], not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God." refering to the churches in Macedonia. This is the proper order of things and so it first involves trusting God, realizing that He has placed one in a position over you in a particular function and then trusting that person whom God has called. 3)Self-will will not allow someone else to control it. Much like pride, it must be the one at the front of the line controlling and being heard. Again quoting 2Cor 8:5 our submission to God takes precedence. The Apostles declared Acts 4:19"... Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye." Therefore if it comes down to obeying God or man the choice is clear. If it be a matter of opinion we must submit to the judgment of the other which is the very meaning of the word submit. 1.To leave or commit to the discretion of judgment of another. 2. To yield, resign or surrender to power, will or authority. Our questioning thus must not cross the line from inquiry, clarification, to gainsaying. Look at Mary and Zacharias for examples of contrast. c) It is wrong to submit when we are asked to do something or be in a situation that is sinful. It is wrong to submit when obeying those in position of authority would be desobeying God's command. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thehammer44 Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Why is submission so difficult for us humans? Does submission require you to be silent when you don't agree or feel something can be improved? When is submission wrong for Christians? It seems to have a lot to do with pride and self will. Since I was a boy I was taught to be independent, self reliant, to do things for myself. One learns to tie his or her shoes, brush one's own teeth, ride a bike etc., It's in grained to do for your self, stand on your own two feet. All the praise and congratulations for accomplishments bring us to the point...can I surrender/ should I surrender. We cling to who we are, what we feel and our own opinions. BUT, can we find the path God has for our lives with out first surrendering completly to Him. (then not taking back the reins) The issue of agreeing, hmmm. The enemy of our souls doen't want us to find God's path for our lives. Many times he sows seeds of discourse to stop good from coming forth. We must be merciful and show patience and understanding before we interject our opinion. We must move by the leading of the Spirit before specking or trying to change(improve) things. In whose eyes are we improving? Submission is wrong when we go against Gods' commands and moral teachings. To knowingly go against His word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Submission is difficult because we have an innate desire to satisfy our fleshly needs. Our society also celebrates living selfishly. We can disagree and voice improvement if we do it with love which is in line with scripture. It's when we don't match up with scripture - when we think as man does which is not as God does that we get into trouble. It's wrong to submit when it's not in line with God's word. Obeying God over man should be our desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 Why is submission so difficult for us humans? I wish it were easier than it is. I think it is self will, part of our sin nature not wanting to be under any one. Its also easier when the other people are loving, kind, gentle, peaceful, having your best interests at heart and not their own. I like the illustration of Frank Sinatra "I Did It My Way". That is the human way but Jesus did it the Father's way and I'm glad He did. Does submission require you to be silent when you don't agree or feel something can be improved. No but wisdom is needed. Too many times I've been quiet when I should have spoken up and too many times I have spoken up when I would have been better off being quiet so I'm still trying to figure it out. When is submission wrong for a Christian. When it asks us to put anything over God and God Bless, Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcalbreath Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 We have a hard time submitting because we may think we know better than the one who is asking for submission. We think we know better than God, so we say "no" when He tells us something - not a good idea. Submitting to others is less clear. Many times, pride gets in the way. However, the order or command is often not right and we know it. Here we have to take a stand for what is right, but in a loving and humble way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzzanne Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 1. Giving up our personal "control" over to someone else and trusting their judgment or handling of the situation is sometimes difficult, and at other times it is a great relief. 2. Submission does not require you to be silent, but to abide by the other person's judgment. 3. Submission is wrong if you knowingly submit to something you already know is the wrong thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Williams Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 It is difficult for us to submit because I feel that we think we have given up a certain amount of control over our life. I think back to Adam and Eve. Why they couldn't submit to God? Submission doesn't require us to be silent when we don't agree. We have a voice in how we feel or feel we can be of help. Husband and wives are to help each other. We can disagree and still love each other in the way God wants us to. Submission is wrong for christian when it takes precedence over submission to God. God is first in our lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmjackson Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 It is troubling when the dictionary uses terms like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betty Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 Why is submission so difficult for us humans? Because so many people have lost respect for authority. Many years ago when I was in school, we had the utmost respect for our teachers and principal; but through the years, the students seem to have taken over the schools. The majority of them do not submit to anyone, either in the home or in school. Also, there's so much emphasis on "human rights" now that people think they can just do their own thing, no matter what. This kind of thinking has caused the homes and schools to be ineffective as a source of correction and discipline for our young people today. So, I think it's just an attitude of selfishness and apathy as well as a lack of respect that makes it difficult for humans to be submissive. Does submission require you to be silent when you don't agree or feel something can be improved? No. I think it's our responsibility to disagree in a Christian manner with something which we know is not right or may be harmful to someone. If we have some ideas about how something can be improved, we should make our views known in a way that would not be offensive. We can agree to disagree, and still let others see that we are doing this in a spirit of love and concern. When is submission wrong for Christian? Anytime that we allow someone to cause us to do something that is contrary to what we feel Christ would have us do. We must strive to please God first because He is more important than anyone who would want us to go against His Word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berachah Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 Back in the Garden of Eden when man fell he lost his dependence and became independent. This is the very nature of man to be independent and selfcentered. In fact one way to define sin is to call it selfishness. So man is by nature independent. And as Christians it will always be a battle as long as we are in this sin-cursed world. We must be submissive but never in contradiction to the Word of God. And we need the wisdom of God in areas that are not clear. When anything comes along that demands compromise with the world we must speak up and take a stand. We must always remember to speak the truth in love. We must also gaurd our hearts that we do not allow bitterness or hatred to get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunilbernard Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 Q1. (3:1) Why is submission so difficult for us humans? Does submission require you to be silent when you don't agree or feel something can be improved? When is submission wrong for Christian? We are children born in sin. Sin is the first rebellion by Adam and Eve, going against the dictat of God. So the sinful nature is inherent in us. That's why submission to any kind of authority is so difficult for us humans. Anything can be achieved through meaningful dialogue between husband and wife. Submission doesn't mean meekly keeping quite when things are not being done corrrectly. Rather it is the give and take attitude that solves the problem. Keeping Christ in the center of everything will result in conjugal relationships blossoming without the other partner dominating. For a Christian, Christ is the head. That means He is to obeyed in all respects. If any situation arises contradicting this position, then it is to be ignored. But even then, polite and loving refusal to obey will ease the tensions and may lead to rethinking on the other's mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 i. Submission is difficult when you don't trust the one you are submitting to. It is easier eg to submit to a loving, gentle husband who loves to provide well for you, than to one who abuses. Pride/arrogance can make submission difficult for us. ii I don't believe submission necessarily imposes silence. If we have a contribution to make we should do that in the hope that our wisdom and insight be of value to the listener. However, it is up to the listener how much benefit heshe gains from what is said, and repetitiveneww can become nagging which is not Christ-like. iii Submission is wrong when behaviour is demanded that is against God's law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesus4al Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 It is most difficult for us to submit because of our upbringing. (speaking for myself of course) My parents sent me conflicting messages, (this was a mistake in my opinion) For instance one went to church and the other one didn't. But, they agreed on this one point ... I had to learn to: "Pick myself up by my own bootstraps." This came across to me as a child, as a military attitude of "Never give up!" Or "Never give in!" I was confused by any display of weakness. Obviously, I misunderstood the difference between love and submission and weakness and stubornness, and disobedience. It takes a lot longer to unlearn something that it would have to learn it correctly from the start! Love & God Bless You ...Bro. Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatetrek Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 Why is submission so difficult for us humans? We just don't like to be told what to do. God has given us the ability to think for ourselves and many times we just don't listen to God or even good advice from our closest friends because in the USA we had been taught to think for ourselves and we can do it ourselves. WE DON'T WANT ANYONE TELLING US WANT TO DO EVEN GOD! Does submission reqire you to silent when you don't agree or feel something can be improved? No, we should express our ideas when we don't agree with something but we should do in a loving way not hateful. It is like in a marriage there can be disagreement and discuss about a family issue but sooner or later someone has to make the final decision. In a Christian marriage God has set up the husband as the head of the family. When is submission wrong for a Christian? It is wrong if it is sin and not want God wants us to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelOnLine Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 Q1. (3:1) Why is submission so difficult for us humans? Submission is hard for some of us because we don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda bass Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 The reason why submission is so hard for us humans is that most of us don't like being told what to do. We want to have things our way,do our own thing. Submission doesn't mean blind obedience. For example, if a boss wants you to do a job one way and you feel it would be more productive to do it a different way, then you should speak up and offer the suggestion. Submitting is wrong for a Christian when it goes against God's law or if it will hurt or hinder our relationship with Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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