Q5. Gideon's and His Father's Faith

[Pastor Ralph]

Q5. (Judges 6:25-31) What kind of leader has Gideon's father Joash been up to this point? How does Gideon's action affect his father? Shouldn't Gideon have considered the impact on his father? How should this have affected Gideon's action? (See Matthew 10:34-38) In what sense is Joash a follower of Yahweh now?

[Chris]

What kind of leader has Gideon's father Joash been up to this point? (6:25b) How does Gideon's action affect his father? (6:30-31) Shouldn't Gideon have considered the impact on his father? How should this have affected Gideon's action? In what sense is Joash a follower of Yahweh now?

Up to that point Joash was continually swaying to and fro between Baal and God and was not totally committed to either. As there was a mixture of worshippers between Baal and God he allowed both worships and also permitted the altar to be built in respect of the worshippers of Baal. At the time I think he felt he was doing what was right as he didn't know any better.

I am sure that Gideon did consider the impact on his father and that this was one of the most difficult tasks he had to carry out for God as it would directly affect his father Joash should he be revealed as the man who destroyed the altar of Baal and pulled down the Asherah Pole. For this reason he carried out the deed in the dark of the night in the hope that no-one would ever know that it was him. Gideon's faith and trust was really put to the test but as much as he loved his family his obedience had to be to God first and foremost as is stated in Matthew 10: 37.

The good response that came out of Gideon's actions was the fact that Joash began to realise the power of God and stood proud in his sight against the people he led and instead of being stuck in the middle of Baal and God he chose to commit completely to God's ways and support his son's actions.

[Mario Angel]

According with the Scriptures seems like Gideon's father was a wealthy man and with some kind of leadership position among the Israelites (the father had an altar to Baal)but he has failed to this point to worship the true God, he has failed as a leader of his house and of his people.

The actions by Gideon affected his father and cause the men of the town to come to his father's house and demand Gideon's death.

I don't think that Gideon did anything wrong by not taking on consideration how his actions would affect his father because he was obeying a higher authority, God himself.

The father of Gideon realizes that what his son did it prove that Baal was a false god and helped him to understand his mistake of worshipping a false god, his open challenge to Baal to defend himself against the actions of Gideon proves that a transformation had taken place on his heart.

[Pat Beckner]

As I read this passage I wondered just how much have I allowed into my own life that is not parallel to the word of God? As Gideon began at his father's house.....I realize that I must begin at home before I can change my family, community and the nation.....Another thing that stands out is that Gideon did this thing at night, trying to hide....If the Christians in this country would unite..would boldly stand and say "I will not support the evil in this land" God would fight our battles too. In verse 29, the enemy found out who it was that tore down the idol anyway...He might as well proclaimed it from the housetops himself.

[Andrew]

Joash was wishy washy in his alliance with God and to Baal. Joash in order to survive within his surroundings had to be ready to worship both God and Baal. Gideon with his action of worship to God and showing sacrifice to God forced Joash to choose between God and Baal and fortunately for Gideon Joash chose God making Joash a reluctant follower of God. Gideon tried to hide the fact of what was going on by doing his tasks at night because he (Gideon) was afraid. Not sure if he was afraid of his family or the town or both.

[Peggie]

Up to this point, Joash had been a leader in position and maybe title only. He had been sitting on the fence too much to be a real leader. I'm sure Gideon did think about how this would affect his father, but his priorities were in obeying his Heavenly Father.

[KITTY MILLS]

Joash had been an ineffective leader from God's perspective. Gideon calls his father to make a choice. Jesus tells us if we family members more than we love him, we are not worhty of the kingdom. Gideon's action actually called his father to higher ground and gave him the courage he needed to stand up for what God would ahve him to do.Younger people standing up for God and his principles always encouarges the older generation.

[Marjorie Knight]

Joash had been compromising himself, he didn't really

follow God or Bael all the time.

Gideons action forced his father to choose.

In a sense Joaah is a follower of Yahweh now, because

he Followed his son and Demanded that the people

destroy their idols.

[Darleen Nelson]

Joash, as the majority of the Israelites, had tried to serve both Yahweh and Baal. He had Baal's altar built on his land but he also must have recognized Jahweh and known of His power as he supported what Gideon had done when the people wanted to kill him for desecrating their gods. If Joash sincerely worshipped Baal he would have also been in the lynching party. Gideon put his father in danger by his actions and forced him to take a stand for or against Jahweh. I am sure Gideon did consider the effect his acitons would have on his whole family but he obeyed God. In just the same way we are told to make a choice and hopefully we also will choose God.

[nelda huffman]

Joash was a (wishy - washy kind of leader) which is he went back and forth between God and Baal up to this point. Gideons action forced his father to choose between God and Baal and making him realize Baal wasn't God and protecting his son Gideon. I believe Gideon did what God told him and if he had considered his father and let him know what God wanted him to do, He would have talked him out of it or even let Baal know what was going to happen and Baal and his armies would have been waiting for him, the end would have been different. Joash made the right choice by choosing God and not Baal.

[Desiree]

Joash had been serving Baal and God obviously. The altar was built on his property, yet Gideon knew of God and had a relationship with Him. So Joash must have been serving both Baal and God. He, therefore was not a leader totally serving God but also serving man as the people were in sin worshipping idols and as a leader seemed to go along with it instead of making a stand for the Lord. Gideon's act of obedience cause his father to see the truth and change the direction of where he was going and make a decision totally serve God. Gideon out of obedience cause a whole town to look at their sin and change their ways.

Since Joash had defended Gideon's actions of destroying the alter to Baal, there was a change in direction as to whom he and his family and town would serve.

There are times in our lives that when someone "Stands up for Jesus", we should take note and exam our own lives... who do I serve... am I being obedient? Do I need a change of direction?

[Lois Turley]

I am so often reminded of the phrase, "Do what God tells you to do and leave the results with him."

I don't think we can sin against our parents or go wrong in anything else as long as we do what God says. Gideon probably did consider how this might impact his father. But it would have been sin on Gideon's part to refuse to obey God out of concern for his father. God used Gideon's obedience in a mighty way in his father's life.

As others have said, because of Gideon's act of obedience, Joash was forced to choose. In a sense Gideon was the one that forced this choice. Just as when we share the gospel with someone and help them see the truth of salvation.

But ultimately God is the one who brought Joash to the point of decision. God is the only one who can bring people to a true understanding of his call upon their lives and present them with a choice of who they will follow.

[jeanne]

We see Joash has the reed in the wind, swayed by different doctrine. He could not make up his mind. So his son who took that step in faith ,tore down the worship site , what Joash needed.

In his son stand of faith ,he was able to stand and make a choice.

Gideon trust help save a nation from destruction.

[Vickie]

Gideon's father had been a typical ineffective leader--one who will please the people above all. He was not one to take a stand for what was true and just! How true for most of our leaders today. Those who DO take a stand are ostracized.

Gideon's stand forces his father to wake up and realize what he has done. Maybe his son's actions gave him the courage to take the stand he should have taken years before. Gideon, in following a direct command of God, wasn't concerned whom it would affect. Perhaps he was hoping it would have a positive effect on his father.

Joash's wake up call made him realize that the altars he had allowed, maybe even helped, the people of the city to build, were built to false gods who couldn't even stand up to their own dessicration. It helped Joash quit straddling the fence and get on the right side!

[DEBORAH]

GIDEON'S FATHER, JOSAHS, WAS A LEADER,IN HIS OWN RIGHT AND A MAN OF RICHES, WHO WORSHIPPED FALSE GODS, AND POSSIBLE A CONFUSED MAN OF TRUE BELIEFS. JUDGES 6:12. MIGHTY WARRIOR, MEANING TO BE OF UPPER CLASS, ARISTOCRATE.

GIDEON'S ACTIONS, COULD OF MADE HIS FATHER SHAMED, IN HIS EYES. GIDEON FOUGHT WITH OBEDIENCE/DISOBEDENCE WITH THE LORD, UNTIL HIS TRUE FAITH FOR THE LORD WAS TRIUMPHANT.

JOSAHS SAW THE UNALTERED STRENGTH IN HIS SON , THO HE WAS OF LOWER STATUS IN THE FAMILY RANKS {JUDGES6:15}, THE LORD MADE HIM A GREAT WARRIOR WITH A COMMISSION TO DELIVER ISRAEL WITH THE LORD'S HELP, HIS TRUE SUPERIOR FATHER.

IN RETURN THAT MIGHT OF BROUGHT JOSAHS TO WORSHIP THE TRUE GOD.

[Hobie]

No doubt Joash has been both an ineffective leader in the community, a poor example of a leader at home and one who has compromised himself in order to be a friend to all. Sounds like most of our politicians. Sounds like many of us.

I think that it is interesting how God uses our children to get to us. We have all found ourselves dumbfounded, speechless, back peddling and/or ashamed after hearing a noble comment or question from our children. "Dad, if eating right is so important to me, why are you...?" Dad, if following the lord is vital, why aren't we...?" The list goes on.

Father thank you for providing me with healthy children who are following you. Annoint them with wisdom and use them Lord to keep me on your path.

[photobug]

Well Joash was wishy wash he worship baal gods and then tryed to wiship the real god Yahweh that dont work.i am sure Gidden consider the impact on his earthly farther but what was he to do but believe in the trus god and do what he was asked to do and that was to tare down the baal alters.

[Tom Gilbert]

What kind of leader has Gideon's father Joash been up to this point? (6:25b) How does Gideon's action affect his father? (6:30-31) Shouldn't Gideon have considered the impact on his father? How should this have affected Gideon's action? In what sense is Joash a follower of Yahweh now?

Gideon's father Joash has been wishy-washy previously. He'll not deny Yah-weh, but he accomodates other gods, like Baal and the altar on his property. He's not taking charge or leading in the sense of standing up for the God of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac.

Gideon's actions put Joash "on the spot" as Pastor Ralph pointed out in his exposition. He's got to make a stand and he chooses the one, true God. Probably Gideon thought about how his actions would impact his father. Afterall, he did not recruit his father to tear down the altar and he did it at night with some help, partly out of fear, but perhaps out of protection of his father.

Nevertheless, once the altar is tore down and rebuilt the line is drawn in the sand. It was a wakeup call to Joash. The question to me is how do the brave actions of fellow Christians influence me and how willing am I to demonstrate my faith, especially in the face of persecution. I can't be like Peter and boldy proclaim I'll follow Jesus to the death and when push comes to shove deny him. We have to back up our words with action.

Shalom

[leo]

I think Joash was the kind of leader or person who had a religion for convenience's sake. I think he did not truly believe in any god but rather, he had a religion because everybody had one. And the fact is, we still see this attitude today. People worshipping and going to church not because they really believed in their hearts that there is a God who loves them and wants to develop a personal relationship with them but because their parents and friends and everybody else are doing it. They are not really worshipping the Lord, they go to services and conferences and meetings because their crush and/or their friends are there and so they end up socializing with those people, not with the Lord. Joash was a leader but he was only a leader on the outside because for him to say that he did it because he did not any better than the rest of them is not an excuse. Ignorance is never an excuse.

This all changed when he learned that his own son tore down the altars to Baal and Asherah. He saw his son acting with conviction and determination to fulfill the task that was given to him by the Lord. We could assume that at first he was furious at his son for destroying the altars and he was greatly terrified at the consequences that will happen on account of the broken and "desecrated" altars. But as he explained later to the people, he saw that the gods that those altars represent were powerless to stop Gideon from desecrating their altars. So maybe he came up with the idea that either those gods didn't exist at all or they were inferior to the God that his son represented. This made him believe the might and glory of the Lord and thus he later made it a point to protect his son from the people. Joash became a follower of Yahweh.

We could also assume that Gideon did consider the impact of his actions on his father. But is was consider the consequences from his father's point of view if he did it (beat him up, banishment, maybe even hand him over to the people to be sacrificed for atonement) or consider the consequences from the Father if he didn't do it (the Lord's eternal wrath, eternal damnation along with everybody else including his father). I guess we know what he chose, huh?

[gripofhisgrace]

What kind of leader has Gideon's father Joash been up to this point? (6:25b) How does Gideon's action affect his father? (6:30-31) Shouldn't Gideon have considered the impact on his father? How should this have affected Gideon's action? In what sense is Joash a follower of Yahweh now?

Joash was walking on both sides of the road. He may have believed in God but he tolerated the ways of Baal.

Much in the same way, we worship and profess God and still take advantage of worldly things.

Gideon's actions force him to make a decision. I think Gideon did consider the impact on his father. Gideon was devoted to God and made the only decision he could. I read somewhere that you can never say "No, Lord" in the same breath because if you say "no" then He is not Lord.

Joash is now singularly focused instead to trying to live on both sides of the street.

susan

[Glenn Bohlander]

Joash has not been a leader for God.

He owned the land on which these

idols were set up. Although maybe he

had just compromised with those around

him, he was not a leader for God.

What Gideon did put his father and family

in danger.

Gideon probably did consider this

but he obeyed God anyway.

Joash was now a follower of God

because he defended his son and

and told his neighbors the truth

about Baal.

Glenn

[Helen Williams]

It seems that Gideon's father Joash was not a very good father figure when it came to being the spiritual leader of his household. Joash had not made a true commitment to God.

Gideon's action affected his father by putting him in the position of making a choice between baal and Yahweh. He also had to make a choice between his family or the townsmen.

Gideon probadly did consider the impact this would have on his father. I know he loved his father but he had to obey God and do the right thing.

Joash is a follower of Yahweh by taking the side of Gideon and Yahweh. He took a stand that day who he would serve.(Joshua 24:15)

[David Maher]

What kind of leader has Gideon's father Joash been up to this point?

I think he tried to be a good father. He also was trying to please others in his community. This caused him to be less than he could have been, if he had been obedient to the Lord all along.

How does Gideon's action affect his father?

Gideon's actions had several ramifications for his father. First, the act of tearing down the Asherah pole and the alter to Baal must have had an impact on his father's standing in the community. Secondly, he lost the value of the bull that was sacrificed. Third, it forced him to get off the fence and make a choice, in this case it was a good one, for the Lord.

Shouldn't Gideon have considered the impact on his father?

Why should he? He was following the Lord. I think trying to consider the feelings of others all the time probably keeps us from following God like we should. We decide to hold back because we might lose a friend, alienate a family member, etc.

How should this have affected Gideon's action?

I don't think it should have.

In what sense is Joash a follower of Yahweh now?

He is now more in line with the Lord's plan. It is interesting how much impact our children may have on us in our faith walk. He had to take a public stand.

[Judie Suda]

What kind of leader has Gideon's father Joash been up to this point?

He has been a compromising, people pleasing leader. He allowed the people to set up an altar to Baal on his property. He probably did this out of fear to keep the peace.

How does Gideon's action affect his father?

It puts Joash on the spot where must choose to either keep on pleasing these people or stand firm against them in Yahweh's camp.

Shouldn't have Gideon considered the impact on his father?

I think Gideon probably did consider the impact on his father, that is why he took action at night. However, he had to obey God above his father and in faith leave the rest of the outcome to God.

How should this have affected Gideon's action?

In the flesh it would have made Gideon choose not to do God's will but Gideon choose to act in God's strength.

In what sense is Joash a follower of Yahweh now?

Joash chose to put his faith in Yahweh over Baal and put it into action by verbally declaring this to the people he had feared.

Isn't it amazing how God works? He used Gideon's faith to bring Joash face to face with his compromising fear and overcome it. He loved Joash & had not given up on him. He knew the perfect way & time to force Joash into a corner where he would choose to stand up for his faith!

Romans 8 :28 "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose."  

[Mary Jane Boyd]

It was obvious Joash was not a God-fearing man because he allowed the altar of Baal and the Asherah pole to remain on his property. I believe Joash was a people-pleaser, not a God-pleaser. The men of the village were not afraid to come to his home demanding the death of his son for the sacrilege of the altar. I imagine this caused quite a stir within the family. I am sure that Joash had already heard of the act before the village fathers appeared at his door and had quite the conversation with Gideon over it. Don't you know that Gideon told him about his conversation with the Lord? And don't you believe he was quite persuasive in this conversation? I believe the same fear of the Lord was instilled in Joash as it had been in Gideon, and caused Joash to get off the fence and make his decision to side with the Lord God of Israel!

As for Gideon considering the impact on his father, I believe Gideon considered all of it, but knew that he had a choice to make...continue living in fear of his enemies or make a stand for God, and he made his choice.