revmrf

Aha! Some have uncovered another mystery of our faith! The problem that we have is to try to understand the full meaning of resurrection. Clear arguments can be given on both sides of this conversation. Much has been written on this subject: soul sleep, etc. by/from many Christian church traditions. Is it possible that both are correct? The sad part is that the Church has divided itself [i.e. separated from fellowship with each other] because of differing interpretations of this subject. We'll just have to wait and see. In the meantime, I think we understand that we are to live out our faith in the calling that we have received. Of course, this is my opinion....

Tabatha, The Collossions verse above is a very important one to hang onto when addressed by those who question Jesus, the Christ's, divinity... along with what we're discovering in the Hebrews study.

Hebrews 1:2-3, indicates divinity by using the descriptives: God's heir, co-creator, reflector of divinity, exact representation of God's being, sustainer of all things (holds all together), sits at the right hand (privileged position) of Majesty. Seems to me that the Son is the implementor of God, the Father's, will.

'Son': Much more than metaphorical in usage or, in my opinion, even than a biological relationship. I believe that this is 'mystery.' By that I mean it's inexplicable ... cannot be fully explained. I say this because they [Father and Son (and Holy Spirit)] 'were.' They already 'were'... there before the beginning of creation [foundation of the world.] The Son's words carry more weight because of this co-existant/co-equal characteristic [see vv.2b - 3.]

Hi, I forgot to intoduce myself. Like some of you who are 'down east' I, too, live in New England except I live in Lyndon, Vermont... where it is still snowing on April 13! I've been married for 49 years, have three children and three grandchildren. I am retired clergy, but for a great portion of my life, I was a software engineer [computer work, that is.] Good study. Now I'm looking forward to the Hebrews study, Blessings, revmrf

I look forward to being with my loved ones once again, with my ancestors who have gone before me, and primarily to be in the presence of Jesus Christ praising the glorious Triune God. I think that we, in the U.S. are a death denying culture and tend not to think/consider much about death and the hereafter. We tend to focus on the here and now, with all its trappings. That was not always the case, for in years past we, personally, took care of the dying and prepared the loved one who had died for the grave. We were well acquainted with death and thought about it, relating it to our knowledge of the scriptures and its promises [that we've been discussing here.] Now we leave that for the funeral parlor and, often, are only confronted at the memorial service with the gospel and its promises of eternal life by the clergy. We grieve and then... go on our way until faced with death again.

I believe that our resurrection bodies will be virtually the same in attributes as Jesus' was, with the same non-limitational qualities that he had. The good question is: Because Jesus' body had scars and wounds, will ours have similar recognizable attributes? Ralph answers that Jesus' body was a special case for recognition purposes, implying that it won't be for us. Of that, I'm not so sure.... The point? Maybe living in this new dimension requires a 'new dimension body.'

Redemption of our bodies means that we [those who have put their faith in Christ] will be resurrected in bodily form, yet redeemed with attributes far superior than what we possess while here on earth: a body that is imperishable [non-deteriorating,] glorified [splendiforous!], with power [disease free, etc], and having a spiritual dimension such as what Jesus had after his resurrection.

After death, the Christian will be in the presence of God with Christ, awaiting the faithful that remain to come after their death, the completion of all of this will be in accordance with God's time/timing and purpose.

The Bible uses the word "resurrection" for "rapture" is not found anywhere in any biblical text. The Christ will appear; the angelic trumpet will call/announce; God's people will be gathered [the dead and then those still alive;] all will appear before the judgement seat; then those chosen shall enter into glory.

The 'hope' is a secure one - a promise - secured by Jesus' own resurrection from the dead. So our time/work for the Lord has the surety of completion because it is, after all, the Lord's work and he is in charge, in control, taking the responsibility for completion from our own hands, and, no matter how things may seem at present, the ultimate harvest and assurance of well being is by his own methods at his own timing. "So let not your hearts be troubled. Trust in God, trust also in Me. In my father's house there are many rooms... Let not your hearts be troubled, and do not be afraid." Jn 14.1-2; 14.27

The scripture promises a physical resurrection for the believer who will be in the presence of Jesus, the Christ. Jesus, as fully human as well as fully divine, is the 1st one to be alive for ever and ever. Lazurus and Jairus' daughter were brought back to life from death, but they did not have the glorified body as Christ did upon his resurrection. Also, they both died, finally. However the promise of everlasting life is for them as with all believers in Christ. The promis that Jesus is the 'firstfruits' and the 'firstborn' indicates that more are to follow... that's us folks!

Hi Sandy, Would you consider rephrasing "God is a spirit" in the above to read "God is Spirit"? I believe you might acknowledge that there is a difference.

The picture of being immersed in the baptismal water juxtaposed with being immersed in the grave moves to being raised up out of the water and raised [resurrected] from the grave. From life, to death, to new life in Christ. The old has become new. Christ in us gives us the new dimension of his spiritual power.

It is by his death that he took our place on the cross and became sin that we might become righteous or right with God. His resurrection and his place at the right hand of God interceding for us assures us of our salvation.. for who could better be our ultimate intercessor other than Jesus. Otherwise, we would have to rely on our good works vs our bad works [sin] on the balance scale. Speaking for myself, I know which way the scale would tip...

The credibility would be that here was another nice man who cared for others, like so many other nice men. But in this case, Jesus was more as he was exalted to his heavenly Father's right hand - a place of highest honor - to be both savior and judge of all humanity. We, in the U.S., do not fully comprehend what 'Lord' & 'Kingship' mean as we have not been under this type of ruling system since before the Revolution. But we might begin to comprehend its meaning if we thought in terms of 'Command' and 'Commander', however, even that implication is insufficient because 'Lord' implies authority over another ones life and/or death.

I find this a bit difficult to answer because I like to consider that the total collection of the data as described in the bible is the most compelling. Jesus' sudden appearance in the room where the disciples were hiding has always struck me to be very compelling, also his appearance and gentle request for Thomas to examine Jesus' wounds by touch. Furthermore, would the disciples have risked their lives and be put to death for a myth? Is perhaps one of the failures of the present church the lack of focus on the central truth of Jesus' resurrection? What think you of Christ?

The disciples hid themselves away, perhaps fearful that they'd be the next to be put to death. They were in grief as the one that they loved, listened to and followed was dead. Likely they were depressed and confused as to what next to do... leave town? But Jesus had a surprise for them all...

MOTIVES [all of these are a stretch... Disciples: to produce a falsehood that he had risen they bribed the guards with a lot of money, stole his body away, buried him elsewhere, replaced burial clothes with new folded ones, guards then were caught and put to death,... Romans: to implicate & have Jesus' followers imprisoned by producing his body. Jews: same as Romans to get rid of the Jesus' trouble makers. Joseph of Arimathea: only to bury Jesus in his 'proper' place.

Mindy, I sense the same, although I think it may be unintentional. Soewhere doesn't it say "Work out our faih in fear and trembling."

What I think motivates the liberal scholar on this issue: 1. What was taught to them in seminary by their trusted liberal seminary professors 2. Peer pressure 3. Not really being willing to reconsider their point of view i.e. not really being very liberal 4. Like everyone else, there's job security linvolved even though one is tenured Unhistorical claim: To me it's inexplicable other than basic stubborness [the unwillingness to admit a mistake or error, which is a continuing problem in the academy.] I guess, bottom line, is that it's a faith issue and, what one wants to believe.

The difference is about 40 days. Jesus' resurrection took place in Jerusalem, while his ascension took place outside of Jerusalem in the vicinity of Bethany [Mt. of Olives?] 40 days later. They fit, in that after his resurrection during those 40 days, Jesus is with his disciples and followers [amongst men and women] in his resurrection body. In his ascension, he will have ascended to his rightful place [from the humiliating death on the cross] to be with his Heavenly Father at the throne of heaven. Even so, the promise is: "Lo, I will be with you always, even to the end of the age." Indeed, he is God with us.

What we know from the scriptures is that Jesus' resurrection body was fully human..., yet more. For, he no longer was restricted to space/time. It seems that he had/has a new dimension in that he could pass through physical objects [his graveclothes, closed doors,] and suddenly appear as he did on the Emmaus Road. Even so, he ate and talked, was recognizable in his resurrection form ['Rabonni' she said,] and could be felt [his crucifixion wounds] [Mary hung on to him.]

It was evident that something supernatural had happened! In order for Jesus' body to have been stolen away from the tomb, the stealers would have had to overcome the guards in some fashion [drugged their water, bribed them...?], have them help roll the tomb stone aside, unwrap Jesus' burial clothes and carefully tidy them up, carry Jesus away to someplace, and have the guards pretend that they knew nothing about what had happened [and under what penalty by Pontius Pilate?] It seems that Peter & John came to the tomb not believing what they had been told by the women [the 1st Evangelists?] but when they checked the tomb out and saw everything neatly folded - even Jesus' head cloth - that was enough for them to believe. But what did they believe, I wonder? Do the verses - John 20:9-10 - in their textual location indicate that they believed that he had risen from the dead, or was it that they believed the concern of Mary Magdalene: "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!"? [Jn 20:2]

It was on the 1st day of the week, women and men came to his tomb for various purposes & found it empty of his body. At the tomb, they met an angelic being. Later, some were met by Jesus at various places and actually spoke with and touched or even hugged him [Jn 20:17.] Jesus was physically alive - risen from the dead - and appeared amongst his disciples and they, also, spoke with and touched him!