hungry

Q5. (Revelation 5:13) What is the significance of the same quality of worship being offered to both God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son? What does this tell us about their relationship to each other? Their relationship to us? That they are equally worthy of our praise and worship---"if you know Me you know my Father" so since we know Him we know the Father and can give him the praise and worship that He deserves for sending the Son for us and to us; Jesus often said that He was sent to do the Father's tasks and will and on the cross He said as much with His final words---so without the Father He could do nothing and without the Son---the plan of G-d would not have been completed---they need each other to complete the Good News and by the same token we are needed by them to spread the Good News and the Gospel. G-d made the world for us so that we could praise and worship both Him and the Son----for what they have done and for what we are thankful for..........

Q4. (Revelation 5:10) How can our destiny as believers include reigning? In what sense could we reign? In what sense do we serve as priests? In what sense are we a kingdom? As believers we are heirs with Christ and as heirs we are family of G-d and in line for the inheritance to reign with Him in the heavenly kingdom(and earthly reign in the Millenium kingdom Rev. 20:4). We serve as Priests by doing as He would do--leading people to Him and we are a kingdom because we are the subjects and He is our King and Saviour. We are the body of Christ in the church.

Q3. (Revelation 5:9, 12) What made Jesus so worthy of opening the scroll and thus bringing history to its consummation? Why was this act so noteworthy and praiseworthy? Because He was crucified thereby making us redeemed---this was a prophecy by the OT Prophets and Jesus fulfilled the prophecy and in doing so He was the Messiah they were looking for and praised for the sacrifice for us.

I am going to answer the question completely different than all of you who have already answered....please bear with me. In the question it asks "insights into worship that have been adopted by the Christian Church". I took it to mean the symbols that have been adopted and used by the church. Like the robes worn by the Pope in his splendor(but there are many church leaders that are "showy" in their attire in the pulpit), the gold chair that pastors sit on at the dias platform between their duties, the choir that surrounds those chairs on the platform, the lampstands or candles that are lit during some ceremonies, the Pope sitting on his "throne" as he beckons parishoners to come forward, they then bow and kiss his ring, the swinging of the incense burning before processional, parishoners falling down on faces before the dias/altar, bringing their tithes and offerings before the altar (laying of crowns and themselves before the altar) and there are so many more that are in these chapters that the church of today uses in their worship ceremonies.....trying to bring heaven into their worship ceremonies. I am not trying to put anyone religion or practice down...I am just trying to show how I interpreted the question and caem up with my answer.

Q5. Summarize the lessons of this chapter. What are the churches criticized for? What are they praised for? How should these observations shape the twenty-first century Church? The basic crticism was for the fact that they forgot their first love and had gone from those first ways when they found that love.....and the acts that made this a physical removal from that love. Their acts were either cold or lukewarm...both were abominal in His eyes....as He said, He would rather have them cold than lukewarm, the lukewarm church was neither for or agianst Him and that was the worst they could be. They were then easily strayed away and swayed away....sheep led astray!!!!! They are praised for their works and their keeping the love that they had and still have...of the seven churches only one maintained that love and for that they were praised in their works because they were doing what they were called to do.....carry on His works and build up His church....and spread the Good News. The 21st century church would do well to remember His words when He told the churches His feelings---because in one way or another all churches and PEOPLE in those churches fall into the same charecteristic of one of those 7 churches and He knows our works.......

Q4. Why are so many churches a "hotbed of apathy"? How can we combat spiritual apathy and an insipid witness in ourselves? Apathy is the wanting to do good no matter who you are around or with---you wnat to do what is right at the moment or what is wrong at the moment(doing wrong and not caring for the moment <apathy> )....to conform to the world and trying to please everyone. Being politically correct. Churches today are giving up the real love of their life for the comformity of the world. It seems that the bigger the congregation numbers the better the church administrations feel, it's not the numbers but the attendance and what those in attendance are getting from you; it seems that it looks better when you have a 300 (plus) congreagation on your reports, but underneath you may only have 100 (plus) in attendance on a regular basis-----the apathy is that the church admin doesn't care...they've lost their first love....and the real apathy is that they don't care--- We can combat spiritual apathy by remembering what we did when we found the true love of our life, we were so on fire and so hot to spread the news and just tell everyone, we must rememebr how that felt and get that feeling back and the joy that came with that.....if nothing else remember the first love and how it felt to please that person. it should be the same with the church.

Q3. Why do you think the religious compromise required by participating in heathen religious practices in the trade guilds was so spiritually destructive? What compromises do twenty-first century Christians struggle with? Let's not settle for trite legalisms about drinking and smoking. What are the real compromises that dilute vital Christianity? The old saying about a crack in the foundation, or getting a foot in the door........that's what happens when morals and compromises happen! At first it's just a little thing, or no big deal, it doesn't affect me---so we look away and then before we know it, it has come very close to us and affected us before we knew it was there. The devil knows how to get his foot in the door or to open the crack so that there is a chasm a mile wide and very deep. The real compromises that dilute Christianity are the morals of the entertainment society--Movies, medias advertising; the legalities that are being brought about by the ACLU; the chippiing away of the Ten Commandments; the newest one---same sex marriages. It started by sam sex partners adopting and that became OK---now same sex marriages are being OK'ed by states makeing it legal and now churches are sanctifying it----and the question......what next? If we as the church don't start voicing our opinions-----what next, indeed!!!!!

Q2. Why would loosening of sexual standards to conform to the prevailing morals of the culture be destructive of vital Christian faith and witness? How has your culture tended to take the edge off your own Christian moral convictions or forced you to be quiet about them? We are conforming to the world and not the WORD--things that are clearly stated in the Bible as the "LAW" are being slowly chipped away and broken away, we are chipping away at the foundation that based this country; we are losing our Bible basics because of a very FEW and they are winning and because we as the church are keeping quiet....letting judges and politicians make decicions for us and they are not the moral decicions but we keep silent for fear of being ridiculed. But are those people who are upset by the words "in God we trust" giving up the money that it is written on?....NO but they just want to be heard and the lawyers that are becoming rich on these crazy cases, the judges who hear these cases should throw them out.......for the sheer obnoxiousness of them. When the Bible clearly says what is good and what is not, there's not much doubt about what is wrong. I used to think that I as one, couldn't do much, then I began to closely look at the one(s) who started to chip away at the moral foundations and I realized I was letting one and one and one become the standard of what the law became and that's when I realized that when one groups together things change and that's how the churches and people of God should be (we should be one and one and one together to become a group) ---Jesus was one and look how He changed the world and is still changing the world..... Our morals are changing. What was once looked on in sheer horror is now being accepted, TV, movies and the medias are all going farther and farther towards immoral changes and as long as they are testing and not being objected to, they will keep pushing the edge till they have their way and that's what is happening in our society today. The matronly lady who in disbelief said," Wellllllll, I never !!!!!!!!" Doesn't anymore and she is like the dinosaurs----of the age gone by and no more...........but we need to revive her and bring her to life and recharge her to be a leader and to take back what is being lost in our society.....

Q1. How can a local congregation lose its "first love" for Jesus? What are the signs of genuine love for Jesus in worship and ministry? How does the lack of love show up? How can a congregation regain this love? I saw how a congregation lost its "first love"although I wouldn't say it was its first love, but the administration, or those in charge were more worried about being correct than in gathering souls and saving people. They were more worried or geared towards programs and not in the lessons people were learning...just offer this and this and this and this and lose the caring and compassion they had; if a nedy person came into the office for assistance they were judged by their appearance and not by their need....and often they were told that the money wawn't available, but someone else would come in that they felt was "worthy" and the money was there.....how odd!!!It was then that I began to really see how my old church was and I began to get a very bad feeling and started looking for another home....;genuine signs are caring, compassion and the love for a person no matter who, what or where he is from---no matter what he can do for the church or what his position in the community, everyone should be made to feel welcome and LOVED when they come to church and feel the love of G-d in that place, after all it is HIS house;the lack of love shows up when the congregation is more worried about what who is wearing, who they are with, what they were seen doing during the week and what the congregation does after they leave church...many a congregation is "perfect" while they are in church but see them in their true environment and their true colors show and some should be ashamed of what they show when their true light shines for the world to see;the congregation can regain their love if they would rememebr how they attracted their mate----they were at their best and wanted to do everything for/to them when you are in love you can't do enough of the small things that mean so much and that is why the modern church has lost its love, they have forgotten the small things that show the love that a person has...not the things money can buy but the things from the heart that Jesus would do fo the least of these........you know, I once had a supervisor that trained me and he said that if I did my job as though the boss was watching me ----I would never do wrong and I would never get in trouble and I would always do my very best, maybe we should live our lifes in the same way....as though G-d Himself were standing off aways and watching our every move---but He IS-----why do we forget that important fact? Another indication that we have lost our first love.......????????I am sorry this post is so long or that I am on my soap box, I just was so upset when I saw what was happening in my church and others I went to.....I guess it all boils down to the fact that most people and churches have religion and not relationships with G-d.

Q5. What is the significance of the exalted Jesus walking among the lampstands? (1:12-20) What does this teach us about the church? What does it teach us about Jesus? I think the significance of Jesus among, and the important word is among, the lampstands is that He is the center of the churches, He is the light among the lesser lights, His is the brightest and the one that the other lights help illuminate; the light of the lampstands helps guide those towards the center of the light, that point where you are being led and that this will be the ultimate goal for your life----the bright light at the center of the lampstand.

The Father was always there from the beginning and is still there; Jesus is the beginnning and the end He is everything. He will always BE......He was with the Father in the beginning at creation "let US make man in the image" us is plural so they were all there...the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit...imagine, the fact that Jesus was there in the beginning knowing that He would be sent among us to fulfill a plan that his father would have for him and that He would be sacrificed for a non deserving people, how He must have felt...... The significance of this for our understanding is that Jesus is the same as the Father in that He is everything and all, the first and the last, he is our all in everything if we just let Him be what He was sent to be FOR US......

When Jesus walked on the roads of Galilee and Judea He had not come into the full glory of G-d---He was doing the Father's will and had not completed the fullness of it so had not come into the glory that was for Him as He did the Father's will of completeness....and when He had done this He was in the Father's glory so was entitled to stand among the lampstands and be in the full light and glory that was His. The overall emotion that I feel when I vision Him among the lampstands is that to all the churches He is the light among lights and that the light of the churches (lampstands) should shiine towards and enhance Him; they should light the way for Him and be a beacon to highlight His greatness and worthiness; the light should be what we are aiming for in our life and towards that ultimate goal we are heading towards the bright light in our life. This is a balance to our faith in that for all the darkness of this world He can be the light to eliminate the darkness if we just realize He wants to be the light of the world; there are lights in this world but they are just lampstands (church) and they should be a small light leading towrds the greatness and ever-reaching light of Jesus. What an awesome and wonderful thought!!!!!!

The Phillipines, the Sudan,China, Afghanistan and the middle east countries where Islam is dominant----the Book of revelation can be a comfort because the most faithful are persecuted yet, they are in heaven and the ultimate is that the wrath of G-d is seen as rrevenge for their death and persecution on those that persecuted them.....for it is shown that they are under the altar in heaven and that they cry "when Lord, when" and thay areasking when will their persecution be punished and revenged and they are told that they must wait a while longer----we must remember that G-d has an ultimate time for everything---that we are not by our "time" but His time and that everything is for the betterment of His plan in all things.

The book of Revelation shows the intense persecution of the church, yet because of the church's continued faith---it also shows the eternal reward. The church as believers must witness and testify to all they can, to strengthen the kingdom of God. Jesus is the faithful witness because for all He wassent to earth to do for God, He did it because He wasent by God for a purpose and even knowing He was to be sacrificed, he still did as His father requested and did it even knowing He would be a sacrifice for us, many not worthy of the sacrifice, yet He did it all.... We are afraid to witness because we are afraid of what people think of us...if we are energetic about the Word, we are labeled a fanatic, and because we want to be accepted by everyone, liked by everyone. We are also afraid of witnessing because we aren't accepted by all....especially the ones who need it, are least likely to listen and we feel a failure. I think that is the biggest thing is we all want to succeed, if we don't try then we won't fail.... Personally, I don't feel confident enough to witness to anyone because I know there will be a questionthat I can't or won't beable to answer and they will then feel like, you want me to listen to you and you don't even know. hard to explain, but bascically if we don't witness when there is no persecution for us here in the US, how will we be able to witness when there IS persecution ?

Hi everyone, My name is Kathy and I live in SE Georgia, about 2 hrs north of Jacksonville, Fl. I have a wonderful husband who is retired military and now works for the local city police, we have 4 children and 6 grandchildren. I have done several of Dr Wilson's study but am very excited about this one. I've done several Revelation studies and with each one I learn more. That is the beauty of His word, each "teacher" brings out your hunger to learn and study more.

I hope I am doing this right, but I'm assuming this is to the end question of the Vision for the church study-----Everyone's "answer" is a combination of my thoguhts and feelings---we as the body of Christ are His hands,feet and eyes and mouths----we are to set an example and to bring people to Christ as believers. If we as the church don't do this, then who will? we are called upon to do so little for what He has done for us and what He has asked us to do. We must unite as a body and come together for the good of God, Heaven and to bring souls into the kingdom.....have I completely lost anyone by my ramblings? when I get started I just ramble and lose all thread of conversation.....sorry-----Kathy T