Q2. White-Robed Martyrs

[dparker777]

The church will be persecuted beyond our imigination.

THey are under the Throne of God.

For their unwavering faith in God, against odd we can't possibly fathom.

Not turning from God when thing seem hopless.

Because they were killed for their beliefs, by nonbelievers.

No.

Purfied by Christ for their sacrifice.

Be paiticent, God will conquere sin, everlasting life is the prize.

[Liza]

Persecution is there for sure. These souls are in the presence of the Lord. They have been sacrificed for the sake of the Gospel

[linda biloni]

The best i can see from the scripture is that the church will be persecuted.

The souls of those that were "slain" for their testimony are under the alter..

Their proximity to the altar, being under it, to me would signify they are protected.

They were killed because of the word of God and the testimony they maintained. They did not hide their testimony.

These souls ask for vengence because of the wickedness of the world. They want the Lord to take control of the earth.

I believe, because of their desire to have the Lord take control of the world, it is a christian prayer.

The white robes signify that they are righteous believers.

We learn that the tribulation will have to take place and that other christians will be slain.

[linda bass]

It is obvious that there are those who will be persecuted and even killed for their faith in Jesus during this period.

Those waiting under the altar have maintained their testimony despite the risk of persecution or even death.

The white robe represents purity and holiness.

[Helen]

Christians are identified for the world by speaking the word of God and by their testimony. This can be a very costly experience. Real Christians are not weaklings!

These souls of martyrs are under the altar in Heaven.

Altars are places where blood is poured out in covenant relationship. These souls have given life and blood for Jesus. They have not flinched at the price! This fact is respected in Heaven by their placement under the altar (not on top because their sacrifice has already been made)

They were killed for the Word of God and their testimony.

Just as The Lord said that Abel's blood cried out to the Him, He is never ignorant of anything, and blood spilt in innocence speaks loud and clear to Him.

In the likeness of Jesus, Christians long for righteousness on the earth. They love justice - seeing the hungry fed, clean business dealings - in Australian terms "a fair go" or "a level playing field". We are encouraged to build one another up in these terms, and maybe even save a weakening brother. It is right to seek justice for the afflicted in court rooms and parliaments. However it is right to leave vengeance to the Lord (Who is so very much more aware of injustice than we are) and not exact it ourselves. Therefore it is right to bring situations to Him, to ask for a just outcome. We know that God sees and hates injustice. He also knows much more about each situation than we know and is in better position to deal out justice, (often tempered with mercy upon repentance!). It is one of the spiritual laws on which this world was founded - What you sow is what you reap. Justice will always come through!

The white clothing is the righteousness of Christ.

God has a plan in which completion will occur with meticulous timing. Justice and mercy will be total and complete, and God's word (right from creation) will have achieved what it set out to do. Everyone will find perfect satisfaction, and patience is just a tiny piece of THE ULTIMATE JIGSAW

Isn't it exciting, watching it all happen, and having a part to play in it too!

[pablo pinel]

When the 5th seal is broken John sees the souls of those saints who have been martyred for their testimony of Jesus. These souls are the saint s from the church that have maintained their convictions, their love for God. I ask here, are these saints from only the tribulation times or could they include all of the souls from the begining of the church. I think they could include all of the saints from the begining. These souls proximity to the altar I believe signifies a sort of self sacrifice in that they were willing to give up their lives for their convictions, their love of God. I do not think of it as a sacrifice like that of Jesus' in that that type of sacrifice only Jesus' was acceptable to God. The proximity may mean that they follow Jesus and are covered by His sacrifice for them, (and us).

These souls were killed for their testimony of Jesus, the Truth. They ask God for vengeance in that only God can be vengefull. By killing the saints, they are really trying to kill God. Because they cannot kill God, they take it out against those that love God. Remember, Jesus saiad, "they hated Me first".

It is christian to pray and ask God for vengeance in this circumstance. There will be many that will not repent of their actions, their name is not written in the book of life. All the saints are asking is for God to fullfill His plan.

[Debora]

Q2. (Revelation 6:9-11)

What do we learn about the Church from what is revealed in the Fifth Seal?

1. We learn that the altar in the Church serves as centre of worhip (souls in Rev 6:9 gather under the altar; and a place of protection, of refuge).

2. That prayers rise and are heard from the altar by the Sovereign Lord (voices in Rev 6:10 call out from the altar).

3. That ceremonies are performed at the altar (souls in Rev 6:11 are given white robes).

4. That the Church is the gathering place for God's people alive in Christ, a place of waiting and longing for the day of fulfilment. The Church is a place where the Spirit realm exists with connection to the throne.

Where are these "souls" at the time of this scene? The 'souls' are in the spirit realm centred around the throne of God represented by the altar and united and within God's kingdom. The 'souls' are safely kept in care of Jesus in His Church until the New Jerusalem is established on earth.

The 'souls' are gathered and positioned near to God, at the altar in the Churches. The altar is central in a place of worship and in the physical building of the Churches. And if we as people are Church and Christ dwells in us then the Kingdom of God is in us and we are the temple of God then being an altar too. Are the souls resting within their own body, waiting or, in the Spirit realm already risen body and soul like the elders in Revelations 4 and 5 who are the Apostles and Patriachs.

Can the 'souls' be likened to the ones who are the elders dressed in white with crowns of gold upon their heads who are thought of to be, the Patriachs and Apostles, and are around the throne of God. Then these souls would be in the same place as those souls are. Patriachs, Apostles, Marytrs are all in white robes, then all these souls must be all around the throne of God. Jesus died and He is Spirit, the bodies of these souls have died, alive but only described as with voices that cryed out from under the altar where John did not see bodies but souls. Nevertheless these souls are in Spirit with Christ, united with Him.

The souls that were slain could be a number of the mentioned 144,000 that are sealed, chosen. But wait for some fellow servants and brothers are yet to join them. Like Jesus was slain and is with God, then those slain are all sacrificed to God at the altar by Jesus to God. Animals in the OT were sacrified at the altar by priests. Jesus speaks on behalf of these souls to the Father.

Pastors and people in Church are at the altar or, come to the altar, for and with prayers for God and Jesus. The prayers of the people that gather in Churches are offered with the Pastor who speaks from the altar. The altar is also where people commit their lives to Christ. The 'souls' are the ones whose lives are committed to Christ. Jesus who walks admist the Churches are under his rule as King, under His headship. The 'souls' slain are God's servants, purchased by the blood of the lamb.

What does their proximity to the altar signify?

1. The souls proximity to the altar means their lives are commited to Christ.

2. That the souls worship God and Jesus. That they wait and are stationed in the Church in a central place of the Church.

3. Their proximity to the altar represents their closeness to God and Jesus, their relationship.

4. Their testimony maintains their souls as witnesses of faith and their proximity places them in a position of honor, at the altar as martyrs.

Why were they killed? Why do they ask for vengeance? Is that a Christian prayer? The 'souls' were slain by man for the testimony of the Word, martyrs. The souls that are at the altar ask for vengeance. They lay claim to the promise written in the Word and ask for justice, they are waiting for retribution: "How long Soveriegn Lord, holy and true until you judge the inhibitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" . For vengeance is of the Lord's and not ours; Isaiah 34:8, "For the Lord has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion's cause" .

What does the white robe represent? The white robes represent purity; faithful and true servants. They are washed in the blood of the lamb; a robe of righteousness and salvation. Could they be likened to riders on the white horses of His army; white robes are those who are conquerors. They are overcomers dressed in white, they are worthy for the robes of white are given to them by the Lamb, Revelation 3:5, "He who overcomes will like them be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowldege his name before my Father and his angels". They are the ones who have heard and obeyed the word, have listened to the Spirit. They sacrificed their lives ;made honorable to wear white robes.

These 'souls' future are secure dressed in white and are bound for eternity with God and Jesus. They will be residents of the New Jerusalem. Looks like these souls have a booking made or reservation in God's Kingdom, His mansion. They are in the book of life and will live in His house all the days of their life and dwell in the house of the Lord forever and in His Kingdom yet to come, fully on earth. They 'died' not just physically but when alive physically to all things while on earth. These souls made their lives to be like Jesus and lived sacrificial lives to God, obedient like Jesus. Jesus who is the sacrificial lamb for all people was slain. These souls were slain for the testimony they gave as did Jesus. And the testimony that the souls gave is the testimony of God. They are the souls waiting, faithful and true and did what the Father's asks and wants of His people. His will be done, is their testimony maintained.

What do we learn from their instruction to "wait a little longer?

1. We learn "it will be done" from the instruction of God and Jesus, who say "wait a little longer", to the souls who cry out.

2. We learn, it is to have patience.

3. We learn that these souls are heard by God and Jesus in what they ask for. For there is reply made to the souls that cryed out. We learn that it is not for us to know, but, that the prayer(s) will be answered for they say, "wait".

4. We learn that there are more souls to be gathered for God's Kingdom before "it is done". In the reply we learn that there are other fellow servants and brothers to be counted among them and with them.

5. We learn that all will happen as written, for God and Jesus are faithful and true to their promises.

6. Also we learn that what is said is truth. For God and Jesus have made known to us, through the Word and Spirit, as well giving us, His servant(s) to testify. God gives servants past, present and future such as like John; the written word as evidence, yesterday or past. People today give testimony and witness; present. And Jesus and the Holy Spirit gives testimony and witness of tomorrow, the future. Prophecies have and do and did come to pass. All that is written is truth.

7. We learn from 'wait a little longer' that greater things are in store.

[AngelOnLine]

Q2. (Revelation 6:9-11) What do we learn about the Church from what is revealed in the Fifth Seal?

Their persecution will continue in the end times, and they are encouraged to continue their witness even under persecution and death.

Where are these "souls" at the time of this scene?

They are under the altar

What does their proximity to the altar signify?

They were martyred for their beliefs and this was seen as a sacrifice to God.

Why were they killed?

They were killed because of their continued witness and beliefs.

Why do they ask for vengeance?

They asked for vindication and justice so the suffering would end.

Is that a Christian prayer?

Yes it is a Christian prayer because they are praying to God in Faith that He will end the suffering.

What does the white robe represent?

The white robe signifies purity.

What do we learn from their instruction to "wait a little longer"?

We learn that God does things in His own time. We must be patient and wait on Him.

[Julie Ann]

1) About the Church: It is still in place, working for God.

2) The martyred soulds are "under the alter" in this scene.

3) This seems to represent their sacrifice - death - for Christ.

4) They were killed for their belief in Christ and their willingness to share this with others.

5) They ask to be avenged for what they have suffered and they are asking God to do it.

6) I think this was a proper prayer. Many times throughout the Bible God tells us it is his right to deliver his vengence. One verse that comes to my mind is: Romans 12:19 (KJV) Dearly beloved avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written vengence is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

7) The white robes - I belive - represent purity, having been washed in the blood of Christ.

8) The souls are told to "wait a little longer" because all who will die for Christ have not yet died.

[PressThrough]

Q2. (Revelation 6:9-11) What do we learn about the Church from what is revealed in the Fifth Seal? Where are these "souls" at the time of this scene? What does their proximity to the altar signify? Why were they killed? Why do they ask for vengeance? Is that a Christian prayer? What does the white robe represent? What do we learn from their instruction to "wait a little longer"?

The Fifth Seal: Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Their proximity to the altar signifies a resting place, for those martyred for their testimony in Christ. Being that the souls under the Alter are already there and therefore no longer tormented. I believe their prayers are for those still alive and being persecuted to this day - and Yes their prayers are Christian and justified.

Their White Robes are a promise from God, that they have been forgiven and because they perservered through the trials of saving faith, that they are washed clean of the crimson stains that are a result of walking in the way's of the flesh/evil heart.

Wait a little longer, prompts me to remain diligent in my quest for God, so as to win more souls to Christ, that they too may rest in Christ and quit hurting eachother over the stupidity of the flesh. All will be fulfilled soon enough.

[Skroehr]

Q2. (Revelation 6:9-11) What do we learn about the Church from what is revealed in the Fifth Seal?

That life everlasting and eternal protection of the church is granted through the sacrafice of Jesus to Churches accepting the new covenant with God through Jesus. Those who testify for the Lord, though they may lose their earthly life, are accepted in Heaven.

Where are these "souls" at the time of this scene?

Under the altar of the great temple

What does their proximity to the altar signify?

The blood from sacrafices and the remains of the sacraficed creatures was under the alter of old temple of the old covenant. The martyrs sacraficed their earthly lives in trust of the Lord.

They are seen Why were they killed?

For their belief and testimony regarding Jesus being the fulfillment. The One perfect sacrafice.

Why do they ask for vengeance?

They still posess worldly attachment to bitterness and anger for the loss of their earthly lives.

Is that a Christian prayer?

No. Jesus admonishes them that vengeance is his. Jesus wants only forgiveness, mercy and love from us.

What does the white robe represent?

That their martydom and repentance have rendered them clean and worthy to enter heaven

What do we learn from their instruction to "wait a little longer"?

That the Lord will operate in the time that is necessary. We must not be concerned with time. It is an earthly attachment.

[Katzen]

The souls are under the alter. Their presence there signifies that they've stayed close to the church. They were martyred for being faithful and for their testimony. They ask for vengeance because the people who killed them were trying to get rid of Christianity, not them personally. Yes, it is a Christian prayer...asking for victory over evil. The white robe represents being washed clean by Jesus' atoning blood. We have to be patient and let God do His work before we can have the victory.

[Barbara1]

1. We learn that the church has a while longer to repent and come to Jesus for salvation.

2&3. They are under the alter. That they stayed close to the church and the word of God.

4. They where killed for preaching the word of God and for standing on that word.

5. They ask for vengeance because of the unjust blood that was shed for the name of Jesus.

6. I feel that it is a just Christian prayer.

7I think the white robe represents ,santification in Jesus.

8. That souls at the alter are to wait a little longer tells me that God has not given up on the human race yet and is giving them time to listen,learn and repent before Him.

[chenista]

The altar is before the throne of God (Rev 8:3, Rev 9:13) which has the power over fire ("... gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe" (Rev 14:18) refers to the body of believers. The souls are believers "yea, and if I be offred upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I joy, and rejoice with you all" (Phl 2:17); "We are cinfident, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with Lord" (2Cr 5:8). The souls are the body who were persecuted because of their faith - they are at the altar which is before the throne of God. They are given robes because they are cleansed in the blood, they have overcome and will rule with Christ as those who are chosen - this is what they wait for, this is what all true believers wait for - the robe - the promise and covenant of the Lord to those who are chosen.

[alisicia]

REVELATION

Chapter 17

"Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots Revealed."

Chapter 17, like all the others, was written in symbology. We are taught here by the use of idioms, and symbols. Though these terms are covered over in symbols; each of these terms are explained as to their identity. There simply is no mystery to these symbols when we have the explanation. As we unravel the mysteries in this chapter, many other mysteries of God's Word will also be revealed at this time.

Revelation 17:1 "And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials [bowls], and talked with me [John], saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore [harlot] that sitteth upon many waters:

Remember, the seven seals, vials, plagues, trumpets, and thunders are all the same acts. Only a different vision of John's, giving a different profile of the same occurrence, or event. This angel is one of the seven angels that "he" [John] has seen before, and the discussion John and this angel are having is about this "one world religion" that sits, or rules over the peoples of the earth. The "great whore" is a religion, while the "waters" represents the people that follow after the whore, or religion.

This "whore" is identified as "Mystery, Babylon", as we look ahead to the 15th verse. We will also establish in our minds exactly what the "waters", or "seas", or "rivers" truly represents. These bodies of water are peoples, and nations, tongues and languages right here on earth. This harlot is not the Catholic church, or any other church now in operation, but it is a deception created by these Kenite scribes that will so change your church, or any church, to accept the one world political and religious beasts. In the end, it will be the Antichrist's religious system.

The approach the Kenites will use to draw you and your church into their system, will be through your own doctrines like the "rapture theory", or another false doctrine spun out to draw certain churches in to their deceptions. To the Roman Catholics, they will use idols, miracles, or even a statement from the pope, to make the Catholics accept. To Buddhist and the Hindus it will be something different, but all religions will be open and willing to allow themselves to enter into the Antichrist's system.

Why then is the Christian world the focus of Satan's attacks over all other religions of the world? Christianity is the only religion where it's Messiah and founder claims to be the "Son of the Living God". All other forms of religious practice are created by man for man. Any supernatural action then would automatically draw the other forms to that supernatural entity. Christianity is the only religion that is exact and absolute, Jesus said, you either come to the Father by Me, or you are not saved and have eternal life. Jesus said in John 14:6; "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh to the Father but by Me."

So this angel is about to tell John exactly what these terms and idioms mean.

Revelation 17:2 "With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication."

This is the answer given to John, by the angel. The "people" of the earth have become intoxicated on her [this one world religious system's] wine, which is confusion and false doctrine. They are being drawn to accept this religious system that these Kenites will devise upon the arrival of the Antichrist to earth.

Revelation 17:3 "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

John was taken by this messenger in the spirit, to a time of the end. The wilderness is the same as Joel spoke of; where before the locust arrived, it was like the Garden of Eden, lush and flourishing; and behind the locust army it became a wilderness. [Joel 1:19-20] So this "wilderness" is a "time", not a place, when all truth of God's Word has dried up.

Amos 8:11 "Behold the day come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:"

When Satan comes, he comes bring peace and prosperity to everyone that buys into his system.

Amos 8:12 "And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they [the people of the earth living in their flesh bodies] shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it."

So what are these people looking for? The truth of God's Word, it simply will not be found. As we see today, Christian churches are even bringing in the heathen religious forms such as TM and other forms, and trying to use them and call their methods of those eastern religious forms "of God". This "Scarlet colored beast" religious system will be out to please everyone, including you and your church. However, the churches that are of the Smyrna and Philadelphia type will not buy into that system. The other five types of churches will.

This "woman" then is a "false religion", and she sits on "the religious beast" of the one world system. Think of this religious system in today's terms as the "World Council of Churches", this old whore caters to any heathen cause coming down the line. The "Scarlet" color represents royalty, and a very high political power, and that is exactly where the World Council of Churches sits.

The "blasphemy" she is spouting out is against our Heavenly Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit of God. In Revelation 13:1, we were given the seven dominions, or continents which cover the entire earth, with it's ten rulers, or authoritative agencies. All these powers are riding under a beast, which is a world wide government. When this government started, it was in a political form following a world war. However, after the United Nations was established, then a troubling spiritual time came. The Political form of this world wide system will die, and out of it's destruction a religious order, or religion which the entire world will accept will come into being. We will be told later when this form will come into power.

Revelation 17:4 "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:"

The "woman" is the religious order, or church system, that is riding on this beast. Again she is wearing the royal clothing, showing the strength of her power. The "gold and precious stones" that she will be wearing, show her attempt at priestly duties, which is a copy of the breast plate that one of God's priests would wear.

The "cup" is filled "with abominations", which in the Greek text are "bdelugma", and in the plural, its of "idolatry". It is unclean practices of worship. The "cup" in the communion holds the wine, that represents the blood of Christ, and it is taken to our lips. The "cup" represents the purity of Christ's blood, and the sacrifice that was shed for our sins. So the "cup" of this world system calling itself a church will be filled with all sorts of heathen impurities. Those abominations includes filthy practices, such as sodomy, abortion and other unclean things being accepted. This religious "woman" form will rule over all the peoples of the world that will listen to her deceptions.

The "Mother of Babylon" is the head of all confusion, and deception.

Revelation 17:5 "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

This was actually written on her forehead. She, this one world religious system is the queen of all of Satan's dirty tricks and fornications. Though it will look like God is blessing this harlot, and that this religious system is a pillar of the truth, but the system you see is a lie, and from the pit. Satan's religious order will enter prosperous and successful, yet, it well be very short lived [five months], as we read in Revelation 9:5, 10. Daniel also spoke of this time when Satan would come to the earth.

Daniel 8:23 "And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up."

When the one world political system [united Nations] created by the Kenites has come to completion and is accepted by the peoples of the world, then it will cease as a political government because this "king of fierce countenance and understanding dark sentences" will arrive here on earth. That king is Satan.

Daniel 8:24 "And his [satan's] power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practice, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people."

We know that Satan will be supernatural, because in Revelation 9:1, we saw that God gave Satan the power and authority to do those things that he shall do. Remember that God put limits on Satan and he will only be allowed to deceive those that do not have the seal of God in their foreheads, their minds.

Daniel 8:25 "And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."

The policy of any company or organization sets the limits to what the entity will do, or how it will function. It sets the nature of the entity. Satan's policy will be to bless those that follow him, and destroy those that will not. Satan's "policy" is to "magnify himself" in his mind, and that is done when people bow to him, and call him God. That is the "Abomination of desolation" that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15.

Revelation 17:6 "And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration [wonder]."

This "woman" [One world religious system] is drunken with the pride of deceiving the saints of God who were not prepared to face her, or could they even understand how Satan would mold his church. These "martyrs" for Jesus are God's two witnesses. [see chapter eleven.]

This word "admiration" is one of the sickest translations in the whole Bible. In fact it is an outright insult. "Admiration" as used here means "to be shocked", or "to wonder in astonishment in disbelief". This religion, or "woman" was the depth of blasphemy. How could an intelligent and educated world, in this century accept the simplicity of all the Kenite, and Satanic lies and perversions as of God. This shows just how low the religious world will sink.

The lies and practices of idolatry, and perversions will be molded into the minds of this generation through the strict control of the four hidden dynasties, which the Kenites control now. They will shape your thinking and your lifestyle to where you will willingly accept it, if you are not sealed in your mind with the truth of God's Word.

Revelation 17:7 "And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."

This angel is going to tell us the mystery of the woman, the beast, the heads, and the horns. Satan will work differently in this second earth age, than he worked in the first earth age [given in Revelation 12:1-6]. Then the crowns of power was given to the kings that sat over the people, where as in Revelation 13:1-3 we saw that it was the ten agencies of power that wore the crowns of power, not individuals.

Revelation 17:8 "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is [shall come]."

This "beast" was in the Garden of Eden deceiving [beguiling] Eve; he is not here now, for he is in heaven accusing the saints before the throne of God, now. He [satan] will ascend out of the bottomless pit, as we saw in Revelation 9:1, and 2, and "he will go to perdition", following the judgment at the end of the Millennium kingdom age. Friend, "he" spoken of here, is Satan, and don't let any one tell you any different. Satan is the "son of perdition" as recorded in II Thessalonians 2:1-4, and he will be the first Christ to come at the end of this earth age.

"Perdition" means to "perish", and only Satan has had that sentence passed on him at this time. We are told that those "whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world", [that first earth age], will wonder, or follow after Satan. They fell in the first earth age, and they will also fall in this earth age. Those of who were chosen in that first earth age stood against Satan then, and they will also stand now. They are God's elect.

When the last of the elect, and the 144,000 of Israel are sealed, then Satan will arrive as the Antichrist. This age is a repeat of the first earth age. Now, what about the other Christians? They will follow false doctrine, and go into Satan's camp. The deception will cover the whole earth, yet the truth is in your hands to forewarn those around you in this generation.

There will be no equal to the deceptions that are going to come, in the history of all mankind. Yet the sermons of today are full of nonsense, with no sense of urgency given even as this great hour of deception is at our doorstep. The Church sleeps, while the Kenites steal the sheep.

Revelation 17:9 "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth."

If you understand God's prophecy, then you have "wisdom". The "Mountains" are seven nations, or dominions. They are areas of land, and all seven dominions comprise the entire earth. They will make up Satan's earthly kingdom. A "kingdom" is "a king and his domain". The "woman", or this false religion will sit and rule over all seven of these dominions. "She" is the religion of Satan created by the Kenites, and the eighth verse told us it is Satan [the beast] that will sit over the woman.

Revelation 17:10 "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

Now we get to something a little different. When we go back to verse eight, we will understand it.

There were ten kings at first, but this deals with seven different kings. These seven kings have been over their dominions for some time. There is only one king that Christ has given power over all the earth in the past two thousand years, and that king is Satan. These seven kings represent the seven offices that Satan has held, from the "dragon" in the first earth age, "serpent" in the garden, all the way through this age to the Antichrist at the end of this age. There has been five roles that Satan has and is playing to this date, and Satan is our "accuser" before the throne of God today, but in time he will be right here on earth filling the role of Antichrist, which will be for a very short time. Satan's final role starts shortly, very shortly, with Michael casting him out of heaven [Revelation 12:7]. He will have only five months in his final role of this earth age.

Revelation 17:11 "And the beast that was, and is not even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

Remember in verse eight, "he" was the one out of the pit. Satan's "eighth" role is when he goes into perdition. Why, "of the seven"? Because he was over the seven, one entity in all seven positions; and now this eighth is his last.

No one except Satan has been judged and sentenced already to perdition, as recorded in Ezekiel 28:18. This beast is the son of perdition, and "perdition" means "to destroy" or destroyer.

Revelation 17:12 "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power [authority] as kings one hour with the beast."

These "ten horns" are ten kings, and all these kings exists at the same time. They are not like the seven kings of the roles of Satan. They do not rule until a specific time, and then they rule for one hour.

The beast [Antichrist] must appear first, then their power will be given to them by the Antichrist. This is after the deadly wound has been healed, the ending of the one world political system. This is the "hour of temptation" Jesus speaks of and warned us of seven times. The warnings are given so that we will not follow, or be deceived by this beast in that final hour [of this age]. The elect and the sealed of God will not be tempted in that hour, for they know who the tempter is [satan].

This is the time to have your Spiritual armor on and ready for the battle. There is no "rapture" or escape from this hour of temptation here on earth, but God's armor is sufficient to protect you during this spiritual battle. I am aware that this is the point that deceivers use to draw you in; however, it is the very deception that will lead you to the Antichrist.

Revelation 17:13 "These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast."

There can be no doubt now who rules over the ten kings, or authorities, or agencies: it is Antichrist, the beast. The nations of the world have no borders, or boundaries. The Euphrates has dried up, and Israel and Babylon are one in mind and accord. These authorities must be similar to the ten agencies that now rule the earth, under the United Nations. These are UNICEF [for the children], the World Bank [economics], the World court [to settle disputes], Red Cross [the world health organization], Relief [starvation], the U.N. forces [military], Space, Environment, and the Beast [universal information and control computer], and Education, as well as the World council of churches.

Anything you can imagine is covered and governed by one of these ten agencies.

Revelation 17:14 "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of Lords, and King of kings: and they [those sealed with the truth in their minds] that are with him are called, and chosen and faithful."

Thank God that you can be living in this generation, and understand what it is all about. This is the generation most of the Bible is written about, for it is the final time of testing of those who fell in the first earth age. If you understand, then God's plan makes sense and no deception can come for you. You know that Satan is the first Christ. He will come with his tricks and deceptions.

These leaders of the world system will make a war, a spiritual war with the Lamb [Jesus Christ] and they will lose in the battle. All who stand on that day are of the "chosen for God", and they will remain faithful.

Are you one called, chosen and faithful. If so the rewards are great in Christ's kingdom. That spiritual armor will be given at the close of this chapter, as recorded in Ephesians 6:10-20.

Revelation 17:15 "And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

He continues explaining the symbols. The "waters" are "the people, and nations of all languages of the earth" that the Antichrist will sit upon. Mystery Babylon will control the entire earth, and that means you, unless you have been sealed in your mind, prior to when the Antichrist arrives.

Revelation 17:16 "And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire."

These ten horns, or agencies of authority will actually hate the people caught up in this satanic religious system. In Revelation 9:4 we saw this army of locust will burn [deceive] all, with the permission of God, except for the elect. "Fire" is the deception, lies, and tricks in this spiritual battle, while God's big weapon is His Holy Word. Hebrews 12:29 states that "God is a consuming fire".

They will make Christians "naked" by taking away all their righteous acts, for when they take "the mark of the Beast", they throw away their acts and works before Satan. Our garments in the next age are made up of our righteous act. We will read of this in Revelation 19.

Revelation 17:17 "For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."

It is God who puts the will in the hearts of these ten kings, or world rulers to fulfill God's will. It is God's will, and under His control and authority that all that should come to pass; will come to pass, exactly as His Word said it would. We are observers in this generation, with the mission to plant seeds of truth until the arrival of the Antichrist. Then be willing to be used by the Holy Spirit, as he talks through us during this time of the tribulation.

The plan of God is right on schedule, and we are in a position to see the awesome workings of God as He moves to fulfill His eternal plan. Unbelievable peace talks are taking place, and enemies around the world are following the lead of the political beast. Why would all this happen?

"For God hath put it in their hearts [minds] to fulfill his will, and to agree, and to give their kingdom unto the beast." [verse 17] All things shall come to pass as they are written.

Revelation 17:18 "And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

This is a symbolic city. It is made up of one thing, Confusion. A mind set that brings all minds and thoughts of the world into a common bond. They agree to accept the idolatry, and the entire world order, both political and religious. The city is not a city as we think of cities today, but a state of mind, which is in accord and agreement with Satan's religious order. That state of mind will be what rules the authorities controlling all mankind, except God's elect. Got it? I hope so.

The Shepherds Chapel

[johnd]

Q2. (Revelation 6:9-11) What do we learn about the Church from what is revealed in the Fifth Seal? Where are these "souls" at the time of this scene? What does their proximity to the altar signify? Why were they killed? Why do they ask for vengeance? Is that a Christian prayer? What does the white robe represent? What do we learn from their instruction to "wait a little longer"?

From what is revealed in the fifth seal we learn that the church has people who have been murdered for their belief in God.

In this scene these "souls" were under the altar.

Their proximity to the altar signifies their closeness to God.

They were killed because of their belief in the truth and their witness to our Lord Jesus.

They ask for vengeance because they had died violent deaths which requires justice.

This is a Christian prayer.

The white robe represents moral purity and is the correct attire to be worn in the presence of God.

From the instruction "wait a little longer" we learn that the time will not be indefinate and therefore the people who were still to be killed is limited.

[sister]

There were Christians who were killed on earth because of their Christian belief. They are safe now under the altar of the Lord. They were faithful unto the end of their earthly lives. Their cry for vengence came more from a concern for God and for righteousness sake, not because of their own suffering. It is a Christian prayer. The white robes they were given represent righteousness. There are to have patience as God knows the time of fulfillment. Also, more souls are due to die for their faith: Revelation 7:13-14, Revelation 13:15, Revelation 18:24, and Revelation 20:4 and will be added to their number as described in these scriptures.

[Lisa Rupert]

Q2. (Revelation 6:9-11) What do we learn about the Church from what is revealed in the Fifth Seal?

The Fifth Seal reveals that the Church should continue it's faithful witness inspite of persecution and death. Even thought they are being slain for the word of God they are to continue in faith.

Where are these "souls" at the time of this scene?

The "souls" are under the altar.

What does their proximity to the altar signify?

This signifies that they were slain for the Word of God.

Why were they killed?

It is said that they were persecuted or martyred for a sacrifice to God.

Why do they ask for vengeance?

They ask for vengeance because they were unjustly persecuted or martyred.

Is that a Christian prayer?

Yes this is a Christian prayer because they know that vengenance belongs to God and not to man. They request vindication and justice not revenge because revenge would have to be an act of God.

What does the white robe represent?

The white robe represents being cleaned from the spots of sin. Being washed clean.

What do we learn from their instruction to "wait a little longer"?

We are to wait until the time is at hand. Meaning the time of God not the time of man.

[charlenereeves]

Q2. (Revelation 6:9-11) What do we learn about the Church from what is revealed in the Fifth Seal? Where are these "souls" at the time of this scene? What does their proximity to the altar signify? Why were they killed? Why do they ask for vengeance? Is that a Christian prayer? What does the white robe represent? What do we learn from their instruction to "wait a little longer"?

There was a time between the 5th and the 6th seal. The "souls" were martyered people " the faithful witnesses" whom had been martyered for their Christian belief. The were under the altar signifying they were persecuted and a sacrifice to God. They were praying for vengence and justice. The white robes signified repeatence and Prescence of God. The instructions were given to wait a little while and the Son of Man will return

[Craig]

We learn that the Church is under heavy persecution. These martyrs' souls are under the altar because sarificial blood was poured beside the base of the altar in the temple (Ex. 29:12). They were killed as a result of professing Jesus Christ, ultimately to fulfill God's plan. They are calling for vengeance that justice might be rendered and yes it is a Christian prayer. Christians seek justice, truth and accountibility. The white robe was given to those slain for Jesus Christ. A lesson for all Christians in this passage is to have patience. God is in control of events in fulfilling His will and plan. All things will come in God's perfect timing.

[korsgren]

Q2. (Revelation 6:9-11) What do we learn about the Church from what is revealed in the Fifth Seal? Where are these "souls" at the time of this scene? What does their proximity to the altar signify? Why were they killed? Why do they ask for vengeance? Is that a Christian prayer? What does the white robe represent? What do we learn from their instruction to "wait a little longer"?

We learn that the church is under persecution and that there is more to come.

The souls are under the altar which indicates that they are in the very throne room of God, a sacrifice to Him. They are given great honomur.

They were killed because of the word of God and the testimoney that they maintained.

Threy ask for vengeance for theier blood, that they were killed unjustly.

Is this a Christian prayer? Help! Well they were Christians and they prayed it and God did not reprimand them fo it He just told them to wait a little longer which seems to signify that they will get what they ask for in the end. But they must wait, leading to the next part of the question. More will be matyred which indicates that the witness and the preaching of the word must continue awhile longer also giving more people on whom God otherwise would exact revenge, chance to be saved. It reveal Gods heart to save, to forgive to give time for more to be saved at the same time as he is just and will one day exact judgement. Thats as far as I

[JustJeff]

I don't necessarily learn anything about the church from the opening of the fifth seal. What I do learn is that there are people (the church?) who pay a great price for their Christianity, that is, their lives.

These souls, living under the altar obviously are deeply loved by God as illustrated by their closeness to Him.

Throughout the ages, many Christians have been martyred for their faith. They were killed because they remained steadfast in their belief in the Lord and our blessed hope.

Vengeance belongs to God so it would seem unlikely that those who perished in His name would pray for it. More likely they are seeking the finality of the promise, the fulfillment of hope, eternity and habitation with our Blessed Savior.

The with robe would mean purity, that these have attained the righteousness that only God can give us.

The Lord wants that no one would perish, that all who have attained the promise would be received in heaven by Him. To wait a little longer is to wait until the very last of these makes it.

[Bro Steven]

The white robes are given the the saved and that there will be great persecution during the tribulation and the word of God didn't come back void.

these souls are under the alter. they were killed because of their belief. They know that God is a just God ( God will not be mocked what ever a man shall sow that he will reep)

They are told to wait so that all to be myarted for Jesus sakes is completed.

[Linda Spilman]

Q.2 The church remains faithful, suffers martyrdom yet describes the Lord as holy, true and the ultimate judge. The white robes signify the believers allegiance and purity. The souls under the altar gave their life as a sacrifice to God. Slain for the word of God their plea for vengeance includes the punishment of the earthdwellers but it's a cry for the hastening of the establishment of God's Kingdom. Yes, it is a Christian prayer - "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." Receiving the white robe denotes purity and that they are "given" to each one who remains faithful. Wait a little longer - be patient, others will sacrifice their life and this too is a fulfillment of God's Kingdom.

[mags]

What do we learn about the Chruch from what is revealed in the Fifth Seal?

The church will be persecuted martryed in the end times - there will be no escape

Where are these souls at the time of this scene?

The souls are under the altar - close to God

What does their proximity to the altar signify?

Spiritual warfare - as a sacrifice to their Lord and Saviour

Why were they killed?

For their faith and witness to God

Why do they ask for vengeance?

So no-one else has to die for their faith

Is that a Christian prayer?

Yes - they are trusting in the Lord - 'for vengence is mine' says the Lord

What does the white robe represent?

Purity - cleansing through the blood of the Lamb

What do we learn from their instruction to wait a little longer?

God's timing is perfect and that it is not Him doing things to help us but us helping Him and doing things for His master plan.