Q3. Examples, Case Law, Hyperbole?

[Old Jerry]

The things that these examples have in common is we are reminded not to let those are opposed to us get under our skin. This is not aiding nor abet evil it is helping us to keep evil out. If we try to get revenge on those we think need it, we are not better than they are. These examples are just aphorisms or adages.

[Guitar Jim]

Q3. (Matthew 5:39-42) What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common? Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages? In another way? 

 

Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree?

 

I have to say yes. In my personal life's circumstances I have been the victim of bullying my entire life. First there was my brutal abusive father. Then in high school I was bullied by a whole gang of boys in the two grades lower than my year. I ended up making that stop by hospitalizing the ring leader with am extreme act of violence when I finally snapped after 18 months of copping it every single day.

At work, when I left school, I was approached by an AMWAY salesman who was my first leading hand and when I wouldn't work for him selling that crap he made sure I wouldn't make it through my apprenticeship.

At my next job a friend of my evil father took it upon himself to make my life as difficult as he possibly could. I quit when I couldn't take that any more.

At my next job I got on great with everyone except my foreman who mistook me for a person from a neighbouring country that he had a real irrational hatred for and even after finding out I was actually Australian he kept up the persecution. I quit that job when he actually cut my pay just because he could!

Then at my next job my supervisor was the worst example of a human being I'd ever met up to that time. Everyone hated him because there was simply nothing about him you could like! I'd become a Christian by that time and daily I prayed for him that God would soften him and help me to reach him for Christ but in the end his constant blasphemy and his treatment of me, a child of God, must have been too much for God and the man died, after I 'd suffered at his hands for 8 years. Mind you, if God hadn't killed him, I was only a few months away from doing it myself, such was his absolute hatred for me and he worked out that hatred toward me in so many ways that I was almost at breaking point. I would've beaten him to death. The day after his death I went to work and I felt like the "Nowhere Man" in that short lived TV series. With no one to focus their hatred on they all turned to me! By the Grace of God I endured that for another seven years before eventually being made redundant.

I'd been forced to work at very heavy manual labor for the 15 years I spent at that company. I started there in 1982 fit and strong and by 1997 I'd suffered a broken vertebra in my lower back and torn my left bicep in my left shoulder, as well as having been adversely affected by the chemical spills because I had to clean them up with no safety gear back then. After 15 years there, I was made redundant and at my very next job the bicep snapped off.

 

I have always been a good guitarist and was advised by everyone who knew me to pursue that as an alternative career. The music industry is run by the Mafia . . I didn't know that back then . . and I, like hundreds before me, ran foul of the godfather. I actually won a battle against him over a very trivial matter, but he well and truly won the war! In 2002 he banned me from every venue and in 2003 I spent five months with no work at all. He'd ordered every other booking agent to help him eradicate me and they took to the task with great enthusiasm. Those that weren't aligned with him took up the cause as well, simply because I was a better musician than almost everyone on their books. 

I pray to God for help to resist the temptation to hunt them down and kill them! Their persecution of me eventually cost me my marriage and I've been divorced since 2007. My wife couldn't take the incredible uncertainty of my employment and started looking for a more stable replacement for this itinerant Bluesman.
Now . . why do I believe that praying for these people and asking God to bless them is aiding and abetting evil? By doing that I am enabling them to not only continue to hurt me and my career, but to continue to do the same to other people as well. King David, in many Psalms, prayed to God to avenge him against his enemies and to bring about their utter destruction. Now that's Old Testament, pre-Christ's sacrifice thinking, but it's in the Bible . . and David was a man after God's own heart.

So, how should I pray for people who are still actively and aggressively working against me with extreme prejudice? 

I limit my prayers for them to just asking God to bless them with good health and asking God to, in whatever way, facilitate their coming to know Christ as their Saviour. I can't and won't ask God to bless their businesses because by doing that I'm, by default, asking God to ruin mine. This cartel of music industry overseers, for want of a better word, actually take significant time and resources each week to look for me to keep up the pressure to force me out. It'd be like praying to God to strengthen the arm of a man who was beating you with a stick so he could beat you harder.

 

I'm having a real problem with this study. Being divorced, even though it was due to marital unfaithfulness, am I under God's curse? Am I wasting my time in even trying to serve God because I'm out of his Will due to my life's circumstances? Will I be one of those who gets into Heaven by the skin of my teeth with my very clothes singed by the flames? After reading this study I believe the answers to all these questions is Yes! 

 

 

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[Karen11]

On 12/19/2007 at 10:27 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q3. (Matthew 5:39-42) What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common? Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages? In another way?

To always give more then is asked of you, no matter what the circumstances are.

I don't see that at all, how is loving someone evil.

Take these as showing love.

[MosesSole]

On 12/19/2007 at 10:27 PM, Pastor Ralph said:

Q3. (Matthew 5:39-42) What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common? Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree?  Love really has no bearing in cases such as these. I do agree that if you allow someone to strike you, and take from you, you are essentially allowing yourself to be victimized. It is literally aiding and abetting in evil so maybe the ones who are advocating love for the attackers are not wanting to live in a civilized society. Let's not overuse the word love. You can't love the one who slaps you the same way you can love your mother or spouse.

How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages? In another way? For me these are just adages and a way to approach situations in which one is the victim of a crime. You'll often hear victims say that they have forgiven their rapists but forgiveness does not mean that the victims are not seeking justice through the courts. In the name of law and order, attackers must be brought to justice either via confinement or through death. Otherwise they will continue to rape. One cannot tell a rape victim  to love the attacker and then ask that the victim to give her body to the rapist some more. That's ridiculous. Love is not a license to abuse and keep abusing. 

 

 

[MosesSole]

On 5/5/2016 at 7:34 PM, Guitar Jim said:

Q3. (Matthew 5:39-42) What do Jesus' examples or tiny cameos in verses 39-42 have in common? Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree? How should we take these examples: As case law? As hyperbole? As a series of aphorisms or adages? In another way? 

 

Someone has said that if we were to carry out verses 39-42 literally, we would aid and abet evil. Do you agree?

 

I have to say yes. In my personal life's circumstances I have been the victim of bullying my entire life. First there was my brutal abusive father. Then in high school I was bullied by a whole gang of boys in the two grades lower than my year. I ended up making that stop by hospitalizing the ring leader with am extreme act of violence when I finally snapped after 18 months of copping it every single day.

At work, when I left school, I was approached by an AMWAY salesman who was my first leading hand and when I wouldn't work for him selling that crap he made sure I wouldn't make it through my apprenticeship.

At my next job a friend of my evil father took it upon himself to make my life as difficult as he possibly could. I quit when I couldn't take that any more.

At my next job I got on great with everyone except my foreman who mistook me for a person from a neighbouring country that he had a real irrational hatred for and even after finding out I was actually Australian he kept up the persecution. I quit that job when he actually cut my pay just because he could!

Then at my next job my supervisor was the worst example of a human being I'd ever met up to that time. Everyone hated him because there was simply nothing about him you could like! I'd become a Christian by that time and daily I prayed for him that God would soften him and help me to reach him for Christ but in the end his constant blasphemy and his treatment of me, a child of God, must have been too much for God and the man died, after I 'd suffered at his hands for 8 years. Mind you, if God hadn't killed him, I was only a few months away from doing it myself, such was his absolute hatred for me and he worked out that hatred toward me in so many ways that I was almost at breaking point. I would've beaten him to death. The day after his death I went to work and I felt like the "Nowhere Man" in that short lived TV series. With no one to focus their hatred on they all turned to me! By the Grace of God I endured that for another seven years before eventually being made redundant.

I'd been forced to work at very heavy manual labor for the 15 years I spent at that company. I started there in 1982 fit and strong and by 1997 I'd suffered a broken vertebra in my lower back and torn my left bicep in my left shoulder, as well as having been adversely affected by the chemical spills because I had to clean them up with no safety gear back then. After 15 years there, I was made redundant and at my very next job the bicep snapped off.

 

I have always been a good guitarist and was advised by everyone who knew me to pursue that as an alternative career. The music industry is run by the Mafia . . I didn't know that back then . . and I, like hundreds before me, ran foul of the godfather. I actually won a battle against him over a very trivial matter, but he well and truly won the war! In 2002 he banned me from every venue and in 2003 I spent five months with no work at all. He'd ordered every other booking agent to help him eradicate me and they took to the task with great enthusiasm. Those that weren't aligned with him took up the cause as well, simply because I was a better musician than almost everyone on their books. 

 

I pray to God for help to resist the temptation to hunt them down and kill them! Their persecution of me eventually cost me my marriage and I've been divorced since 2007. My wife couldn't take the incredible uncertainty of my employment and started looking for a more stable replacement for this itinerant Bluesman.

 

Do not take the law into your own hands. Instead pray to God of Justice, our Most High God. He will fight your battles for you. He will vindicate you. (Deuteronomy 28:7)

Now . . why do I believe that praying for these people and asking God to bless them is aiding and abetting evil? By doing that I am enabling them to not only continue to hurt me and my career, but to continue to do the same to other people as well. King David, in many Psalms, prayed to God to avenge him against his enemies and to bring about their utter destruction. Now that's Old Testament, pre-Christ's sacrifice thinking, but it's in the Bible . . and David was a man after God's own heart.

So, how should I pray for people who are still actively and aggressively working against me with extreme prejudice? 

I limit my prayers for them to just asking God to bless them with good health and asking God to, in whatever way, facilitate their coming to know Christ as their Saviour. I can't and won't ask God to bless their businesses because by doing that I'm, by default, asking God to ruin mine. This cartel of music industry overseers, for want of a better word, actually take significant time and resources each week to look for me to keep up the pressure to force me out. It'd be like praying to God to strengthen the arm of a man who was beating you with a stick so he could beat you harder.

 

I agree with you and I think you should take these verses more as a parable and a way to cope with harmful situations in a way that God would want you to approach it. You cannot love the person who is beating you and stealing from you. But you can pray to God Most High for justice, because He is the God of Justice and Righteousness. He doesn't like evil overtaking His children. (Psalms1)

 

I'm having a real problem with this study. Being divorced, even though it was due to marital unfaithfulness, am I under God's curse? Am I wasting my time in even trying to serve God because I'm out of his Will due to my life's circumstances? Will I be one of those who gets into Heaven by the skin of my teeth with my very clothes singed by the flames? After reading this study I believe the answers to all these questions is Yes! 

 

No you are not under God's curse but you are having some tribulations which will end eventually. God puts His children through tribulations so that He can reward you higher honors at the end. Stay strong and wait for the Lord. He will not let you down. (Psalm 37:34) 

 

 

 

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[Irmela]

3.1 They call to radical love and not to retalliation and resistance.

3.2. No

3.3 I think we should learn from them and recognize the need to show love rather than be involved in clashes and fighting.

Resolve an issue peaceably.