JesusWalk Bible Study Forum: Q3. Brotherly Love and Self-Giving Love - JesusWalk Bible Study Forum

Q3. (2 Peter 1:7) Why do we imagine that "agape love" is easier than loving church members? If we avoid church because of our hurts at the hands of church members, can we mature fully in Christ? Why or why not?

Q3. (2 Peter 1:7) Why do we imagine that "agape love" is easier than loving church members?

Agape love is love regardless to whom it is given. I can't see it being easier than loving church members. Either you love with Agape love or you don't. It does not single out certain people; and if we single out church members then we are not walking in Agape love. God has no respect of persons. So if we are loving with God's love then we love everybody, even those who are unlovable, those who cause you to want to go the other way. But God reminds us of the fact that we are a product, a image of Him.

If we avoid church because of our hurts at the hands of church members, can we mature fully in Christ? Why or why not?

No we can not mature fully in Christ because sometimes God will allow church members to bring out of us what needs to come out. If we can't tend to horses in our own home, then how can we in the house of God, so my point is if we can deal with the hurts from family members then we should be able to let God have His way with us in the church with His members, or should I say His body because He is the aurthor and the finisher of our faith.

Pastor Ralph, on Jul 1 2004, 09:52 PM, said:

Why do we imagine that "agape love" is easier than loving church members?
Because we think others should be at the same level of Christian maturity as we are. We gift project thinking they should know and grow and be as we are.
But agape love is love which gives without thought of what it will get back. My children taught me this lesson, and don’t God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Ghost the helper do this for us?
Can’t outgive God. . . when we give to others, in love or other things. . . it does come back to us, even more abundantly.

If we avoid church because of our hurts at the hands of church members, can we mature fully in Christ? Why or why not?
I believe you can continue to grow without attending a church per se building but not without fellowship of other Christians which are the church (Christ’s body). We need each other and the gifts that God has given each of us to grow up in all things. (Eph. 4:7-16) that is why in Hebrew 10:23-25 we are told not to forsake the assembling together; we are to be there for each other to stir up love and good works.

AGAPE LOVE MEANS LOVING YOUR ENEMIES AND PRAYING FOR THOSE THAT PERSECUTE YOU. AGAPE LOVE GIVES WITHOUT THOUGHT OF WHAT YOU WILL GET BACK. BEING CALLED TO SOMETHING HIGHER THAN THAT WHICH WILL BENEFIT US. I THINK OF 1 COR. 13 ( THE LOVE CHAPTER) WHENEVER I HEAR OF AGAPE LOVE. LOVE IS PATIENT, IS KIND, DOES NOT ENVY, DOES NOT BOAST, IS NOT PROUD, IS NOT RUDE, IS NOT SELF-SEEKING, IS NOT EASILY ANGERED, AND KEEPS NO RECORD OF WRONGS. LOVE NEVER FAILS!
WE WILL NOT MATURE TO THE HEIGHTS THAT CHRIST WANTS US TO IF WE HOLD AN AUGHT AGAINST ANYONE. GO TO THEM AND ASK FORGIVENESS AND GET IT STRAIGHTENED OUT AND MOVE ON TO GREATER HEIGHTS WITH CHRIST.

Q3. (2 Peter 1:7) Why do we imagine that "agape love" is easier than loving church members? If we avoid church because of our hurts at the hands of church members, can we mature fully in Christ? Why or why not?

Agape love is something out of the ordinary. It is not done regularly. It is divine. It is uncommon. We imagine that because we are Christians, we love with Jesus' love. We love in general, all the christian community. But this is far from the truth. We hate certain obnoxious characters in the church who are so loud mouthed, character assassins, etc...but Jesus said the sick person needs the physician. How true it is. The obnoxious person in the church needs love more than the goody goody character. It is easy to deal in general terms but hard to deal in specifics. Herein lies the test. We should surrender ourself completely to the Holy Spirit so that He will develop our character to love in 'agape fashion'

We cannot mature as Christians if we avoid church because of certain obnoxious persons. No one is perfect and no church is perfect. All of us live together as a body of believers to help each other grow spiritually. Living alone will hamper growth. We need the singer, the preacher, the attender, the steward etc... for our spiritual growth. Each one contributes his/her mite so that the other one is benifited.

I guess we think of God's love as a wonderful experience which we equate to agape love. However, experiencing that love is not entering into the practice of it. That takes the power of God and the gentle correction of His Spirit.

We are made the sons of God through the blood of Jesus. His divine power has given us all that pertains to Life and godliness. We are to use this magnificent gift, and to build a loving heart as described in 1 Cor 13. A heart like the heart of God loves under all conditions, even conditions of personal hurt. Jesus said "Father, forgive them for they know not what to do", and we are to love people even in their ignorance of what they do, who they hurt etc. We are to pray for those who despitefullly use us, and do good to those who mistreat us. This is to have the mind of Christ, or in old testament terms, like King David, to have a heart after God's
own heart, forgiving and perpetually loving.

This is not easy or "natural" to us. We need to desire to love like this, and to ask Father in Jesus' Name to help us do it. We need to use the shield of faith to deflect personal fiery darts, and not receive them, or respond to them in any way, seeking only the good of the one who fires them! We need to have a vision of living for love, and not for self. And just when you think you have it licked, something will happen that sends you straight back to God, asking again for the power to love. After having been able to use the shield of faith reasonably well, I found this week that I needed again to ask Father again for the power to forgive and to love. He did just that! How mighty and faithful is our God!

This said, there is no possibility that we would not come to church because someone said the wrong thing, or may not say the right thing. There is only the possibility that we will love them whatever they say or said, by the grace of Almighty God. We come to church to worship and adore our beloved Jesus. That has nothing to do with anyone else. If we put Him first, He will help us get our relationships right with every person. That is the order! In fact we are to do that before we consider taking communion, lest we drink damnation to ourselves. Our God is a god of reconciliation. Let us fear God, and love one another at all costs!

If we are hurt by someone the Word tells us to go and make that right. If we avoid them by missing church then we are only delaying what God wants to do through us and we are hurting ourselves. A reconciliation cannot take place if we avoid confrontation. And if we are not seeking reconciliation then we are putting ourselves outside of God's will. Maturity comes when we exercise our faith and seek to do God's will and not what just makes us comfortable.

Every trial and every hurt actually becomes a blessing...a new opportunity to grow into that unmoveable love....a new chance to pray for and love our enemies. By practicing this, we finaly are set free of grudges and strife. We are at peace with all around us and we can look at every trial as "What is is that God is trying to teach me with this problem?"

I have never imagined agape love being easier then loving church members and now that I have meditated on it I still can not imagine this.
If we avoid church because of hurts and do not forgive these church members and we do not seek other Christians we will not mature fully for we will not be united, joined together in the faith and knowledge.

Q3. (2 Peter 1:7) Why do we imagine that "agape love" is easier than loving church members?
We recently were exhorted to not see agape love as impossible by our minister of christian education. I do not see any love being possible outside of Jesus Christ. God is love. Inorder to love our knowledge of the love of God affords the hope that we too can love as God loves when we trust the love that God shows us enough to demonstrate that same kind of love toward others with the help of the Holy Spirit. Loving fellow christians is not a seperate category for me. Loving fallen mankind beginning with myself is what I believe the second of the greatest commands denotes. Love your neighbor as yourself. When I don't love myself, I can not love my neighbor.


If we avoid church because of our hurts at the hands of church members, can we mature fully in Christ? Why or why not?

If we avoid church, period. We can not mature. I believe that God instituted the Church. He is coming back for the church. He expects believer to be equiped in the church inorder to complete the great commission given to the disciples. It is not easy loving people, but with God all things are possible. He would not have asked us to do what He would not equip us to do.

It is not hard for me to love others and I am thrilled when I see a member of the congregation I belong to but occasionally there are those with whom I miss a connection even though I believe them to be solid parts of the body I just find it difficult to fellowship with them. I think this is a type of elitism on my part in that for the most part I want them to think more highly of me but they are doing and thinking other things so when I having spent a lot of time talking to others or studying and talking to God on a particular matter voice some things they are not understanding me because that is not what they are about. To make this clearer let me say that I am not involved with any ministry on a regular basis at my church except for Sunday School and Church attendance and fellowships and Wednesday night but family work schedules have made that difficult lately. I volonteer in a support role for a career decisions workshop that meets at another local church and my career is based on the ministry of bringing growth through stability to the individuals, families, neighborhoods, and churches in the area. I have a lighthouse ministry of prayer which is not very active right now because it is so hot outside. There is a third ministry I believe needs to begin and I see some small growth as I continue to pray and mention it to others. Our church is growing and I and my family have been blessed to be a part of that on an ongoing and regular basis just not in one ministry over a long period of time. I am very uncomfortable in my church though mainly because I am not socially or economically like many of the members. Most folks such as myself do end up leaving the church with complaints that I could share as valid complaints but cannot share as reasons for leaving. There is a verse about not being offended when others do us wrong and for the most part those who do offend me do not mean to or even understand me enough to know if they have offended me but basically I just have to turn and not even look as far as the cross but just look at Christ and the disciples or Paul to see that they had similar difficulties in what they ate, wore, how they partied or worshipped so we just need to find ways to love each other better and know each other better. My first study with Pastor Ralph I was close to homebound and became even more homebound later but now I can get out and about pretty good but my health is not pefect so this contributes a lot to my not finding a regular ministry at my church but perhaps God has something else in mind.

Pastor Ralph, on Jul 1 2004, 09:52 PM, said:

Personally, I don't believe that loving God is easier than loving others. But, my definition of 'love' might be different than yours. Brotherly kindness, charity, and love; this is the subject. To 'avoid' trials and tribulations is not a Christ like attitude, to me. I pray for a Christlike attitude for all of us, in The Family of God.
Love ...Bro. Al

Quote

I see the problem as we decide that we "philio" our fellow brothers and sisters and not "agape" them. It's like Peter and Christ's conversation when Christ asked Peter "Do you agape me?" and Peter responded "Yes, Lord, I philio you." We've got to be at the point where we agape each other as fellow believers since we are called to do this. We cannot mature fully in Christ without the agape. We will always be stunted as mature christians without agape. How can we fully experience the deep love of God without understanding the true meaning of agape?

Q3. (2 Peter 1:7) Why do we imagine that "agape love" is easier than loving church members? If we avoid church because of our hurts at the hands of church members, can we mature fully in Christ? Why or why not?

Agape love sounds innoucous--just love all children of God! In the plural. undifferentiated. not individually. Church members can sometimes be less than Christian ideals--including myself. But, we have to forgive those who hurt us--intentionally or not--before we can truly love them.
Avoid church? If we do, we cannot truly follow Him. He said "Do good to those who persecute you!" Not just minor bumps--PERSECUTE you! Only a person who is mature (or at least striving to become so) can truly forgive another--even those they realize did not do it intentionally, let alone those who intended the abuse.
If we avoid church because of this, we keep ourselves outside of the will of God. Without His Spirit within us, we will fall short of His desires for us. We need hearing the Word and studying what He wants of us--daily, yes, but even more so in the body of Christ--His Church--every Sunday, in order to be open to His guidance and help in forgiveness as well as in all other areas of growing more like Him.

When we avoid church because of our hurt over what our brothers and sisters in Christ have done to us, we don't really understand the nature of agapé it seems to me.

Agape love is easier than loving church members because church members are human as we are. None of us are perfect in any way and we all have flaws which makes it more difficult to love one another.
If a brother or sister hurts us we need to pray for that person and GOD will put a love and concern in our hearts for them. How can we hate one for whom we are praying?
If we stay away from fellow believers we will not grow in the LORD. He tells us in His Word to meet together and we need to obey Him.

Q3. (2 Peter 1:7) Why do we imagine that "agape love" is easier than loving church members? If we avoid church because of our hurts at the hands of church members, can we mature fully in Christ? Why or why not?

We tend to hold church members to a higher standard than people who don't attend church. There is nothing wrong with this. However, we are less forgiving when church members stumble. We mistakenly expect fellowship with church members to always result in nothing but uplifting and happy ends. So, when that doesn't occur or we see or hear of church members acting hypocritical we are offended. I'm afraid this happens out of selfishness.

It is harder to mature fully in Christ without being around other believers and learning from them. Most believers attend a Christian church because the church is the body of Christ by definition.

Quote

[color="blue"]3a.) I guess because it is in our imagination. Again "agape" love is the last of the traits Peter tells us to attain. I think this is the most difficult. If you are not loving church members, there is no "agape" love.[/color]
3b.) (2 Peter 1:7) If we avoid church because of our hurts at the hands of church members, can we mature fully in Christ?
[color="blue"]3b.) No. Many have already given the Scripture references..in particular I point to Hebrews 10:25. One other Scripture reference is Matthew 5:23-24; Jesus tells us to: [/color]"[color="purple"]Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your borther has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.[/color][color="blue"]"[/color]

I think that member(Sunnilbernard) has answered that question properly,as to Agape Love. This is really the love that only God can express ,even though
as we grow in Jesus , we can show a God-like love, but we are still operating
in the flesh, and having the same contention with sin, as expressed by Paul, who struggled with doing the right thing (Rom.8).
Avoiding church is NEVER the answer. This will let a matter go unresolved between the two parties. God instructs us to pray for those who have offended us. It's to be remembered that we are all vital to the Body of Christ
no matter how we see each other in the body. God has placed that member
in the body AS IT HAS PLEASED HIM.

As a group, fellow church members can be very trying. Certain members want the floor too often. Some are cronic complainers. Some come with hygiene problems. The list goes on-But we have been told that we are to give these people, and all of the body of Christ our unconditional love. In our spiritual walk, to become more godly, we must look beyond the obvious when dealing with church members, and deal with them as we ask God to deal with us. We need the church members in our lives, even when they may cause us to hurt. It is for us to love and support them-" ..in as much as you have done it to one of the least of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me." Matt 25:40. To mature in Christ, we must become good stewards for our church members.