JesusWalk Bible Study Forum: Q1. Poverty and Riches - JesusWalk Bible Study Forum

Q1. (4:11-12) How can a "prosperity doctrine" threaten Christian ministry? To what prime motivation in us does such a teaching often appeal? In balance, what does the Bible teach about poverty and riches?

A “prosperity doctrine” can threaten Christian ministry because it focuses on getting instead of the life of giving that Christ taught and modeled. It would tend to turn the focus inward on self and most likely appeal to the motivation of greed because our flesh just can't ever get enough. And any “doctrine” that isn’t true for everyone simply isn’t true for anyone. The Lord doesn't categorize His promises to His people. We know that millions of believers live in abject poverty all around the world – shouldn’t such a prosperity teaching be true for them, too?

King Solomon had an interesting plea in Proverbs 30:8-9 …give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with the food that is needful for me, lest I be full and deny you and say, "Who is the LORD?" or lest I be poor and steal and profane the name of my God. Either poverty or riches can lead you away from God.

The key is where your heart is, for your treasures lie there. Paul has already taught us to treasure the heavenly prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus, and now to be content in whatever earthly things we have. It should never be our circumstances of poverty or riches that matter most, but our inner supply from Christ that’s rich in His glory and mercy. He’s promised to provide for what we need. I don’t believe that it’s wrong to ask for something greater. And He truly does recompense a giving believer out of His generosity and abundance. But we must guard against wanting more stuff instead of more God.

A “prosperity doctrine” is false doctrine. It sends the wrong message to seekers. It is less about glorifying God, and more about glorifying self. It appeals to our ego and fleshly interests—and promises us treasure in the here and now. It leads towards idolatry and away from servitude. We are more concerned with “what's in it for me”, and we lose focus on the ministries we are called to serve.

In addition, “prosperity doctrine” misrepresents the reality of Christian life. It fails to recognize that there are seasons of need among the seasons of plenty. Each day we ask for, and receive, “our daily bread”. God's provision is sufficient. Christian life is not an insular life, protected from trial—Christian life is a trial.

The Bible teaches that poverty is of God.

“The LORD brings poverty and gives wealth; He humbles and He exalts. He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the garbage pile. He seats them with noblemen and gives them a throne of honor.” (1Sa 2:7-8a)

“The rich and the poor have this in common: the LORD made them both.” (Pro 22:2)

“I know your tribulation and poverty, yet you are rich.” (Rev 2:9a)

God's riches await us… not here on earth… but in heaven. Hallelujah!

A prosperity doctrine can threaten Christian ministry because it can cause someone to turn to God for the wrong reasons. I have heard quite a few preachers preach if you pay your tithes then you will get back ten-fold. I have seen a lot of people pay tithes because they believe that expecting to get out of the financial trouble that they are in and there are no results. Sure there are people who do reap when they pay tithes, but there are just as many who suffer great financial burdens when they do. Enough said about tithes that is a whole other topic that I don’t want to get into, but my point is that when people hear a prosperity doctrine, they tend to give for the wrong reasons.
We have a desire for earthly treasures and that is what that doctrine encourages, “I’ll give so I get back more than I had before” instead of “there is someone in need and my love for my brother is so great that I want to help them through their struggles.”
The Bible teaches that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into heaven. It always sounded to me that it would be impossible for someone rich to gain salvation until I heard onetime that there was a gate in the wall of Jerusalem that was very short and was called The Needle’s Eye. In order for a camel to get in through this gate he had to get down on the ground and crawl through it on his knees. Not an impossible task, but one that took a lot of trouble and hard work to accomplish. So even though it is not an impossible task it would be very difficult to stay on the right track to make it to heaven. I think that the more money people have the more “things” they acquire and the more distractions to keep them from God. Also they have more of a tendency to not look to God for meeting their needs.

God gives us the ability to prosper. He also gives us the ability to be in want as Paul describes - "I can do all things in Christ Jesus". This "all things" relates to managing in whatever condition we find ourselves while doing God's work. It's a bit different from what prosperity teaching delivers. Some Christians are to prosper and supply the need of the churches. All of us are to tithe and make offerings according to God's Spirit. Whatever we do, we are to do it joyfully. We certainly are to expect the unexpected from God and He is our supplier. We are also to keep in mind those who have so much less than we have, and to give to them. I feel it is good to prefer others before ourselves and pray for them. In so doing, Father will look after our needs. He has done this with me marvellously. As a pensioner I have need of a car, and Father has put it on the heart of one of His men to do all my services and repairs free of charge for his time! Imagine that! I stand amazed at His answers to my prayers of need. The prosperity doctrine can suggest to people that the church is all about money. People can feel ill-at-ease if they have not "prospered" as expected. There are those who are called to forgo careers which would be financially rewarding for the gospel's sake, and go far away to minister. We have great responsibilities to these people as a prosperous church. Of those to whom much is given, much is expected! This is my summary of prosperity teaching.

Jesus did teach on financial issues, mostly that people should "give unto Caesar...." (ie respect authority which God has put in place). He also noted beautiful gifts and pointed out the motivation behind them - eg the woman who gave her last coins, and Mary who gave the expensive oil against His burial). These are the motivations He wishes to see. So I do wonder about teachings on giving that emphasise the returns. I don't find many examples of that in Scripture. Did Mary get back 10 times the oil she poured on Jesus feet? Did the widow get back 100 fold on the coins she put in the temple offering. It is not demonstrated that they did. Did they have that in mind? I don't think so. I do think generousity teaching is in order, but I question prosperity teaching.

The rich are responsible for improving the lot of the poor. Giving is to be a joyfully generous response of love, either to need or to a ministry. Money is for putting to good use (good stewardship) and tithing is expected of everyone as a first base offering. Requests are to be made known to God. Wealth is a blessing to be enjoyed and shared, and poverty is no virtue! Proper giving in finance draws the open windows of Heaven upon the giver.

Quote

[color=blue]1a.) Pickledilly stated it well. Your focused on getting not giving. Selfishness instead of selflessness.[/color]
1b.) (4:11-12) To what prime motivation in us does such a teaching often appeal?
[color=blue]1b.) Our sinful nature. The comforts of the world. Temporal things that can be eaten by moths and rust. Not the eternal treasures that we should be building in heaven.[/color]
1c.) (4:11-12) In balance, what does the Bible teach about poverty and riches?
[color=blue]1c.) The author of Ecclesiastes observes: "[/color][color=purple]Whoever loves money, never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless[/color][color=blue]." (Ecclesiastes 5:10) Jesus teaches: "[/color][color=purple]No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one or love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money[/color][color=blue]." (Matthew 6:24 & Luke 16:13). I know in its contet Jesus is warning us about placing all worldly things first before the Father. Paul also addresses this in one of his letters to Timothy. "[/color][color=purple]For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs[/color][color=blue]." (1 Timothy 6:10)[/color]

Lesson 9 Q 1
(a) A "prosperity doctrine" can threaten a Christian ministry by people will be accepting Jesus for prosperity instead of believing what He has done for us. A "prosperity doctrine" is not the full Gospel.
(b) The prime motivation in us that such a teaching often appeals is having a worry-free life, (so we think). Everything taken care of with money. Often the desire for more or better possessions is really a longing to fill an empty place in our life. Through the Gospel message, money or possessions is not what will make us happy, only a life in Jesus Christ will and it will more than fill that empty place.
© The Bible teaches about poverty and riches is to be content in whatever state we are in. Jesus is with us in both poverty and in riches. Amen? The secret is drawing upon Christ's power for strength.

Q1. (4:11-12) How can a "prosperity doctrine" threaten Christian
ministry? To what prime motivation in us does such a teaching
often appeal? In balance, what does the Bible teach about poverty
and riches?


Q1. (4:11-12) How can a "prosperity doctrine" threaten Christian
ministry?

It makes us desire more. We want to give in to our own needs instead of being a help to others.

To what prime motivation in us does such a teaching
often appeal?

We sometimes give our of need of what we can get out of it for ourselfs. Instead it should be out of our love for others.

In balance, what does the Bible teach about poverty
and riches?

It teach us that no matter how much or how little we have here we should be happy. We should keep our eyes on the heavanly treasures than anything we can gain while here.

Q1. (4:11-12) How can a "prosperity doctrine" threaten Christian ministry? To what prime motivation in us does such a teaching often appeal? In balance, what does the Bible teach about poverty and riches?

The answer is in the word "ministry". Ministry means to serve, to take care of others needs. Giveing to get is not serving. It is keeping the focus on one's self not on Christ or the people He wants us to serve.
Prosperity teaching appeals to selfishness and greed.
I loved pickledilly's answer from proverbs, to have just enough, not too much and not too little. We saw in our Abraham studies how God does bless people with riches and we see from Paul's life that sometime there are riches and sometimes not so rich. The scripture teaches us that the problem is not how much you have or have not, the problem is the LOVE of money, which is the root of all evil. Prosperity doctrine feeds the love of money.

Q1. (4:11-12) How can a "prosperity doctrine" threaten Christian ministry? To what prime motivation in us does such a teaching often appeal? In balance, what does the Bible teach about poverty and riches?

Prosperity doctrine - is not doctrine - is is taking away from Jesus. We come to faith because He deserves worship and praise - NOT because we get something. Prosperity teaching is all about ME and what I can get. The Lord came to serve and not be served - he came humbly - - prosperity teaching takes away from the poor and makes the richer - richer.

Riches are not always monetary value and things - riches are helping someone in need - a hug - the things of Heaven - - not materialistic stuff for our pleasure on earth.

It takes our eyes off of the Lord and puts them on material possessions and that is idolatry, which is a sin. We've seen how Peter began to sink once his focus was off the Lord. We will also sink if we take our focus off the Lord. If we sink, eventually we'll die and this is the great danger. This doctrine appeals to our old materialistic "I want it all and I want it now" nature. We are to seek the Kingdom of God first and everything else will be added. Jesus showed John, Peter and James that He could supply their external needs easily with abundant fish. It was also evidenced by the coin in the fish's mouth. Jesus can easily provide for our physical needs but we are to seek to fulfill our spiritual needs and all else will be taken care of. If we truly walk with God, material possessions would have little-to-no value to us. I believe that a true disciple would desire first and foremost a close relationship with God and then to bring as many people into His Kingdom as possible.

Q1. (4:11-12) How can a "prosperity doctrine" threaten Christian ministry?
It puts our minds on things of this earth not on the thing of God, he has said he will provide all our needs according to his riches in glory. We do not need to count or depend on this world for our help. God is our God.

To what prime motivation in us does such a teaching often appeal?
We to be honest want to keep up with the Jones as the old saying goes. We want to look think we are as good as everyone else. When in fact what is in this world should not have affect on us. We need to keep our minds our thoughts on the Lord who has gave us promise after promise if we do what he says he will take care of us. The things of this earth are only borrowed for a while they are temporal and they will pass away but still when we see others with great wealth we seem to desire it.

In balance, what does the Bible teach about poverty and riches?
The bible tells us God will meet all our needs and that he is the one we need to seek and desire. He is a King I am the child of a King he is not going to let me go without what I need. But if times get hard we know he is with us. He will be with us in want and in plenty. He is our Father he loves us. He lets us go through all things for us to grow. I have been where I did not know where the next meal to feed my family would come from and I have been able to do a lot for family at times. In both these times I thank God for he supplies all my needs. I do not have to worry or fret he is with me at all times. We need to know both sides of this coin for that way we are eager to help others and do for others that need our help. God has a purpose for all things that go on in our lives. We grow and become a better more useful child to our Father as we learn in all things. Thank you Jesus.

How can a "prosperity doctrine" threaten Christian ministry?
properity can be good and bad.
good; if you see it as a means from GOD to do something for others with.
bad; if you see it as a reward for what have already done. our reward is to be later in heaven. so it may change the person recieving to doing things for others for the wrong reason. but GOD will test us to see what we will do.

To what prime motivation in us does such a teaching often appeal?
it depends on the individual, if you truly believe in GOD. this test will let you help others.
yet on the other hand, what do you have to look forward to. something else that may not be necessary. and at that point you'll never be satisfied.


In balance, what does the Bible teach about poverty and riches?
most of the time people aren't strong enough to handle it. once have it not willing to give it up for anything, including GOD.

If you only have prosperity and not know poverty then it is for all the wrong reasons. Getting instead of giving which is against gospel teachings. No-one is ever on the mountaintop all of the time. We do get into valleys that only Jesus can pull us out of. Always teaching the high side and not mentioning the struggles that could come, that only Christ can settle. Love of money is the root of all evil. The more anyone has the more they want and try anything to get it. Learn to praise the LORD in the good times and when not so good. At all times PRAISE THE LORD!!

A "prosperity doctrine" can threaten Christian ministry because it brings people to God for all the wrong reasons.
They come to God believing He is a type of santa claus, or some kind of sugar daddy,who is at their beck and call.
One of the teachings is,they give monetarily to the church and they will be doubly blessed with riches.
Of course,when they give their seed faith money,as one famous evangelist referred to it,and instead of being blessed with riches,they find themselves in a period of financial adversity,then that is going to cause them to grow bitter and angry toward God.
The bible teaches that we are to be content regardless of our financial situation.
We are not to seek after earthly riches but the kingdom of God.

First off preaching a prosperity doctrine is a false doctrine that must be seen as false. This is a threat to Christian ministry because it can lead ones to feel if they don't have wealth they must not be being faithful. They may feel as though the are not following God, because if they were they would have many worldly goods. This doctrine would be a selfserving doctrine not a giving doctrine and we know Christ was concerned with giving He gave His life for us!!

Thios kind of appeal would cause some to be come greedy. Going to God for what He can give and not for who He is.

The balance in riches and poverty is to rejoice and thank God no matter where you are, whether in the low bracket of income or the high. Riches are not bad in themselves they become wrong when we put them before good. On the other hand if you have all the riches in the world and lose your soul, what good is it.

[color=red]Properity doctrine can undermine all that the church is trying to do. Giving for the wrong reason will keep the blessings from flowing down. God promises to open the floodgates of heaven if we give but I believe that we must give with the proper motivaiton. Prosperity giving focus' on getting, giving selfishly. Our motivaiton should be to please God,not ourselves. What the Lord blesses us with after we give is gravy on top of our heavenly reward.

Greed! People think that the more they give, the more they will get back. The Lord will always bless you with what you need which is not always what or how much we want. Seed-faith giving is not a bad thing. Plant the seed and just watch the blessings come They are not always in a monetary fashion. Plant the seed. God promises that if you give He will bless you. Plant the seed and expect that God will follow through with His promise and will give you exactly what you need.

Some people are rich, some people live in poverty. That is the way that it is but no matter what our lot in life is we are to PRAISE THE LORD and believe He will give us what we need.[/color]

[color=green]JESUS LOVES YOU, HE ABSOLUTELY, PASSIONATELY LOVES YOU!!![/color]

The accumulation of wealth is, for many, a religion. A prosperity doctrine causes us to focus on our temporal existence, not on pleasing our heavenly Father. This doctrine appeals to our need to feel comfortable, and to a primordial instinct to be the “alpha male” of our community.
The bible teaches us that true riches are found in heaven. Jesus teaches us that to follow him we should lay down all our possessions and pick up our cross.. He also teaches us that it would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to obtain heaven.

How can a prosperity doctrine threaten christian ministry? In what prime
motivation in us does a teaching often appeal.In balance, what does the bible teach us about poverty and riches?

Prosperity doctrine, first and foremost, is an unhealthy doctrine. It appeals
to the flesh, which desires a materialistic lifestyle, leading to the downfall
of one who is truly seeking the will of God in his life. Prosperity is the world's
definition of success, but it will never fullfill the VOID in a person's life.
Money is not the root of all evil, but THE LOVE OF MONEY is the root of all
evil. "Love not the world , nor the things that are in the world; if any man
love the world , the love of the Father is not in him".

The prime motivation is the motivation to please the **** of the flesh.

God tells us the balance about poverty and riches is summed up in the
passage, "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things shall be
added unto you".

Q1. (4:11-12) How can a "prosperity doctrine" threaten Christian ministry?
I think this falls under “It is more blessed to give than to receive.” Our focus should not be on what God can do FOR us, but rather what He can do IN us.

To what prime motivation in us does such a teaching often appeal?
It appeals to our greed and selfishness. We should not be focused on things of this world that can be lost or broken, but rather on the things of God and His Kingdom which will be ours for eternity.

In balance, what does the Bible teach about poverty and riches?
That we should be content no matter what our circumstances are. We should not be focused on material wealth but on the riches God has promised us.