Q4. Total Depravity

[Debbe]

4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

Without God, we have no good in us. No, but it is a state of being. We have a bent toward sin. Modern man wants to believe that they themselves are in control and reject God. Modern man believes that education is the way to enlightenment. The Bible states that without Christ we can do nothing. ( John 15:5)

[lighthouse2014]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

The doctrine of total depravity in my own words, man is totally mentally faulty, having the inability to become perfect, to not be able to control his thoughts or his impulses.

Even though God created man in His likeness, man's desires to fulfill his own selfish desires and wants had gradually drifted away from their creator and His glory, thus man's own countenance faded as far as goodness of heart was concerned. Man himself thinks he good because he trying to solve the community and worldly wrongs, he believes his ideas are the savior for the world. He believes the laws and rituals he has created has brought him closer to his creator and a way into heaven. He believes God is a loving God and could not possibly send anyone to hell to suffer, after all hell is just man's idea anyway so they can try to persuade others to be good.

Man's idea's of working their way to heaven and receiving a crown is a far cry from what the word of God say's. Can man know what God thinks or does or requires of us? God has shown us through His word that He is a Holy God who abhors sins against him and our fellow man. He has taught us we are to worship Him and Him only, believing in His Son he sent to redeem us of our sin 's we have committed and providing us with His Holy Spirit to help guide us in living our life for Him. God love's all mankind and if they knew of His love He had for them, they would all fall upon their faces and worship Him. Only by Jesus and the Holy Spirit will we ever come to know this everlasting love. Unfortunately most people will reject this love and the sacrifice God has provided for us and end up where they wanted to be anyway, forever being cut off from our loving Father.                 

[WinstonY]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

 

Totality depravity is the doctrine developed by theologians to describe the basic nature of people. The Bible teaches the people are flawed in all aspects of their lives -from thought, word and deed.sin affects all areas of our being including who we are and what we do. Sin penetrates to the very core of our being so that everything is tainted by evil-thought word and deed. Total depravity  does not mean that people are completely evil but that everything about people is a mixture of good and evil. So often we do our good works before people so that we will get there praise and admiration. Even when we pray we tend to be like a hypocrite. Jesus taught  "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.  But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."Matthew 6.4-5

 

Modern man from the time of the Renaissance tends to believe that people are naturally good and all they need is the a little help from psychologists, therapists and self help books. However when one studies humanity and  the bible it is difficult to believe that people are basically good. Instead the bible teaches us that are flawed in every part but still holds some of the essential Spirit of God. When we are Christian and have been baptized with the Holy Spirit then our being gradually becomes more and more centered upon the things of God and the good gradually begins to outweigh the evil. But it is a battle and it is only through the Holy Spirit that we gradually begin and strive to a  process  of Sanctification where we gradually become more and more like Christ. No we never get there until the Day of the Lord but we work and continue to pray as did Paul in Philippians 1 :23 " For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far."

[DOIT]

The law of depravity teaches us that everyone is corrupt because of the evil that lies in the heart. This evil is a result of being corrupted by the

"blood line" of Adam. It is because of this, that we will never be able to change our nature, no matter how hard we try!  However, everybody carries the seed of God which is implanted at our conception this seed will  grow according to the faith we place in our Saviour Jesus Christ!

Although a persons nature is flawed (and will always be so), their "prideful nature" deludes them into believing  they are perfect.

[Uncle Dave]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches? 

The corrosion of purity works overtime in its effort to poison the hearts of the whole of mankind with vile corruption. Total depravity describes the state of the heart of mankind in general. A hard concept to accept, for sure. Does it prevent God’s original goodness to show itself? God has done many good things for me, so in that sense I would say that His goodness does show but, we’re talking about His goodness showing through people.

I think that if you study any individual long enough you will find corruption, no matter how slight. Otherwise we would have found somebody who has not inherited the sinful nature that all of mankind is supposed to have inherited from Adam. While I believe that the goodness of God shows through in people, in every mind (heart) corruption of one sort or another exists. People who are generally looked upon as being good are usually pretty good at hiding faults within themselves, but I think that the bigger problem is the failure to investigate our own hearts in a diligent way to uncover the evils which lurk in ourselves? It is not your sin which condemns me, but my own. We all have evil in us, but praise be to our Father in Heaven who sent His Son to bear the punishment we deserve.

Modern man likes to think of himself as “good” because of a failure to accept the truth. The truth is that man is inherently sinful in his ways. The Bible teaches the truth but the one who deceives, Satan seems to be quite busy trying to convince people otherwise.

 

 

[Lottie]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

The doctrine of total depravity is that even man who is created by God and has the image of God in him is still sinful or depraved. That even the good things we do are motivated by our own selfish natures. That we cannot do anything good on our own.

No, God's image still is there only overshadowed by man's inherent evil nature. It means that the good in man was corrupted by the fall.

Modern man thinks that there is some good in all of us; that we can fix whatever is wrong and still get in to heaven. That we are not born in sin and that all ways lead to heaven.

It differs in that the Bible teaches that we are all sinful. That obeying the law cannot save us; only Jesus can do that .

 

[Godswriter]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

 total depravity pictures that we can do nothing apart from God when it comes to sin because we are unable save ourselves and make us holy and righteous that being said we are unable come before the Lord and pray for pray for him to save us on our own that is why that is why his son the only just and perfect sacrifice able to save us from our sin not only that the only way to heaven which is why so many people reject the word of God because they do not want to admit that they cannot save themselves or the fact that they cannot do things that would displease the Lord. What does man is basically good man and means that man is good in a sense that he can do no wrong and that all he can do is good through his actions but that is not how God sees things for in Isaiah it says that all our righteousness is as filthy rags in God's eye

[AmyF]

Q4. (Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:18-20; Romans 7:24) What is the doctrine of "total depravity"? Put it in your own words. Does it mean that none of God's original goodness shows through? Then what does it mean? Why does modern man tend to believe that man is basically good? How does this differ from what the Bible teaches?

Total depravity describes the extent of sin’s effects in every human heart. No part of a person - his/her will, emotions, desires and actions are left untouched or unscathed. Sin is like a cancer, infecting every cell of the soul. It doesn’t mean every person is as evil as they could be, but every person is capable of every evil. Because we are made in his image and the law is written on our hearts, some glimpses of God’s goodness can be seen, but all man’s “righteous acts” are tainted with impure motives, the desire for recognition, acceptance, and void of seeking God’s glory. 
 

The passage in Jeremiah states painfully clear that the heart of man is above all description - deceitful or deceived and desperately wicked. We don’t understand or acknowledge our true heart condition. Romans 1 tells us that sin has caused us to suppress the truth in unrighteousness, to live independent of God, and to replace the rightful worship of God with false idols. We are naturally prideful, rebellious and, at worst, believe we should “improve” ourselves. The Bible teaches a very different diagnosis. It says none are righteous, no one seeks God, all have gone astray, and all fall short of the glory of God. Mankind doesn’t need reformation but rescuing and a brand new heart. What we need most, only the sacrificial love and undeserved grace of God can remedy. 

[Irmela]

Sin is deep rooted in the heart. Thoughts are 'conceived' in the heart and then 'born' as deeds or words. They are either wicked or to a degree 'good' laced with selfishness/wickedness. 

This can only change when we totally give over to Christ, who can bring about the needed change. He is the One Who can cleanse us. 

Create in me a clean heart, oh God!!! 

[Krissi]

In my opinion, a belief in total depravity is the fault line that cuts between "true" Christians and everyone else including non-believers. It's imperative that we think of ourselves as once-depraved but now-redeemed. This fault line cleaves all aspects of society, from political ideology to art. On one side are non-believers. On the other -- us.

• People are not born perfect and then corrupted by society (Rousseau).
• People are not just slightly corrupted therefore redeemable with a good education and moral teaching (contemporary political progressivism/liberalism).

We are not like a gallon of paint slightly darkened by adding the colour black (a tone in colour theory) or slightly brightened by adding the colour white (a tint in colour theory). We are TOTALLY depraved. Totally darkened by sin. Unbelievers can't accept this. They never will. It is their self-delusion to believe they have goodness in them that overwhelms, given the right circumstances, their tiny bad tendencies. Much of the impetus for social work and politics comes from people who think they're capable of bettering other people. Ditto with education. It's a delusion that serves them well, for the ONLY source of salvation and moral improvement is God. Only the Spirit within us makes goodness possible.

But... some say, "Don't atheists do good things? What about INSERT NAME who built libraries, schools, vaccines, etc.? Is that's good?"

Yes, these things can be good, at times. This is a difficult argument to counter. I've known many, many "good" people who are not Christians. Sometimes they put me to shame.

The doctrine of total depravity means that everything an unbeliever does is tainted by sin. Even his/her good deeds.

Since we were created in His image, we were originally created good. The fall changed this. Now, every cell in our body is sin-engorged. But, and this is important, the idea of the fall does NOT negate the remnant of God's created good purposes in us. Unsaved people do good because the Spirit in His graciousness remains active in the world after the fall. He makes it possible for people to live together in partial harmony and for people who are unbelievers to do good. He uses kings/leaders for His purposes -- Cyrus comes to mind. We can have utterly corrupt political leaders whose actions actually help Christians because God is involved in the world ... God hasn't abandoned Christians to the whirls of secular fate. He's still here. Still working out His holy plan.

Thankfully.