Q4. Circumcision vs. Faith

[Commissioned]

Q4. (Galatians 2:15-21) What happens to the importance of Christ’s death if circumcision is deemed necessary to salvation?

If circumcision is deemed necessary to salvation then Christ's death is not important for salvation which all

believers must acknowledge.

Why was this issue of the sufficiency of the Messiah’s death so important in Paul’s day?

The sufficiency of the Messiah’s death was so important in Paul’s day because for both Jews and Gentiles

they had only one way to salvation; Christ brought that way when He went to Calvary. It is Christ that justifies all.

Why was this issue important to Luther and the reformers?

This issue was important to Luther and the reformers because he also knew that it was Christ alone and

nothing else was required for one's salvation.

Why is it so important in our own day?

As it was for Luther, so it is for us; we can be secured knowing that nothing we can do or is required of

us to earn salvation.

How does it affect the relative legalism of our congregations?

For our congregations, the scriptures became their legally binding covenant, not traditions.

[rosegarden]

Q4. (Galatians 2:15-21) What happens to the importance of Christ’s death if circumcision is deemed necessary to salvation? Why was this issue of the sufficiency of the Messiah’s death so important in Paul’s day? Why was this issue important to Luther and the reformers? Why is it so important in our own day? How does it affect the relative legalism of our congregations?

4. a. The scripture states that if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing.

b. Because it showed both Jews and Gentiles alike that Christ's death for our sins put us all on the same level. One not better than the other. We are all the same under grace.

c. Luther got a revelation from God that the just shall live by faith in Jesus Christ, not by works.

d. It is so important in our day because we know by the Word of God that we are saved by the once and for all sacrafice of Jesus Christ dying on the cross to justify us from our sins and that brings us freedom.

e. They need to be taught and brought into freedom. We are saved by grace, through faith and that not of ourselves, it is a gift of God. When we trust Christ for our salvation, His Holy Spirit come in us and changes us and shows us what is wrong in our life. He write His laws in our hearts and keeps us. From glory to glory He is changing us.

[Kerneydr]

Qt4. There can't be anything, nothing between us and God only Jesus Christ. If there is something this means we are either trusting it (law, etc) to give us where we want to go. This could mean heaven or something else such as personal prosperity. Jesus died to cleanse us of our sins and its power. This work of redemption can't be mixted or tempered with. Watch out for pride to look good before others. Look what I have done.

[Jen]

Q4. (Galatians 2:15-21) What happens to the importance of Christ’s death if circumcision is deemed necessary to salvation? Why was this issue of the sufficiency of the Messiah’s death so important in Paul’s day? Why was this issue important to Luther and the reformers? Why is it so important in our own day? How does it affect the relative legalism of our congregations?

I just spent an hour on these questions and it all got erased and I am tired.

So let me say it simply. The just shall live by faith in the atoning work of Christ alone. All man made attempts to earn salvation deface our gospel. for Paul, Luther and us.

Christ is God's amen to the church. It is finished!

God Bless!

Jen

Romans 15;13

[Janissi]

(Galatians 2:15-21) What happens to the importance of Christ's death if circumcision is deemed necessary to salvation? His death would've been in vain and of no use. If following the law was necessary for salvation, then Jesus' death would be obsolete.

Why was this issue of the sufficiency of the Messiah's death so important in Paul's day? Because there were still people who believed that following the law was necessary for salvation. The Jews and the Gentiles were at the same place now. It was important that Jews didn't think they were above or better than the Gentiles.

Why was this issue important to Luther and the reformers?

Why is it so important in our own day? We need to understand the foundation of our salvation. It's important so that when we share the gospel to others, we are sharing the truth of the Word. If we are preaching separate gospels, we might confuse unbelievers. We have to get it right so that people understand the work of Jesus Christ.

How does it affect the relative legalism of our congregations? It can cause others to stumble. God is not the author of confusion.

[Old Jerry]

The thing that happens to the importance of Christ’s death if circumcision is deemed necessary to salvation is that Christ’s sacrifice was worthless. All we would need to do is being circumcised. I guess women would not be able to be with Christ forever.

The sufficiency of the Messiah’s death is so important in Paul’s day is it is today. Jesus is all we need! He gave us the only way to have eternal live in heaven. We cannot earn it period. We can do things that show that we do love Jesus but that will not be enough.

[linda bass]

What happens to the importance of Christ's death if circumsion is deemed necessary to salvation is, if salvation could be gained through the law or works,then Christ died for nothing.

The issue of the sufficiency of the Messiah's death in Paul's day was so important because that sometimes Jewish believers would slip back into believing that observing the law was necessary for salvation. Paul had to constantly remind them that Christ alone can offer eternal salvation.

This issue was important to Luther and the reformers because they had a revelation that salvation is by accepting Christ alone and not by the doing of good works.

This is important in our day because there are churches and denominations that one can only get to heaven by doing good works or living a moral life.

[JenniferLynn]

The sacrifice is of no value if we can work our way to heaven. It is the core of the Christian faith that Christ died for our sins so that we can live with him in heaven. The Catholic Church had become corupted & was trying to work to get to heaven. So that we will not be corupted thinking that we can get to heaven by our own works. We need to lessen the legalism as much as humanly possible because their is only one way to get to heaven.

[Eudora]

Q4. (Galatians 2:15-21) What happens to the importance of Christ's death if circumcision is deemed necessary to salvation? Why was this issue of the sufficiency of the Messiah's death so important in Paul's day? Why was this issue important to Luther and the reformers? Why is it so important in our own day? How does it affect the relative legalism of our congregations?

The Messianic Jews, those who believed in Jesus, knew that they had no advantage over the Gentiles. Paul wrote this in his letter to speak not only of all Jews but of himself as well. Paul knew that there was no amount of rule keeping that could justify his faith. It was only through his personal relationship and faith in Jesus Who is the justifier. Paul goes on to say that if anyone had better rules to keep one’s heart in order it was the Jews, but this system did not present human kind righteous before God. No amount of self-improvement or trying to be good gains anything because it must be by faith. It is by grace that we are all saved through faith. Anything or anyone less would be a ‘legalizer‘. This would be one who has perverted the law into a legalistic system unrelated to trusting God and insists that unless one obeys their legalistic perversion that ‘one’ cannot be saved. Following Jewish customs does not save anyone either. I think I have used this analogy before but going to McDonalds does not make anyone a cheeseburger anymore than following Jewish customs makes someone a Jew. Either you are a Jew by birth or you are not. Man says that you can become a Jew by going through a bunch of hoops, but reality tells me that only makes one a transcultural Jew and nothing more because they are not native.

Natural Jewish people are not sinners apart from the Gentiles. One cannot be justified by tradition or by works; but only through faith in Yahushua Who is righteousness. No one will be made righteous by works of legalism in the flesh.

According to the Jews in Paul’s time, Gentiles were by definition sinners since they did not have the Torah, live by it or observe to do it. However, I believe that once Paul was filled with the spirit, he recognized the equality of Jews and Gentiles before God. In order for anyone to have fellowship with God, he or she must be righteous because God is righteous. God must clear humankind of guilt for past sins and give a new nature inclined to obey God rather than rebel against Him. This only comes by way of the Spirit of Truth given through accepting the sacrificial death of His Son Yahushua; believing in Him by faith. Jesus made righteousness available to everyone by paying the penalty for sins which God’s justice demands death. (Romans 5:12-21) We learn from Jesus by trusting in Him to teach us to understand what needed to be done by Him, and not what we could do. If we deny all the work that Yahushua has done on our behalf, the Father is not in us. It is only by acknowledging what Christ did on the cross that we have the Father in us. This is how we are declared righteous before God.

None of us is perfect. Christ did not come from sin, promote or serve sin. He became sin for our sake so that we would be set free from its curse. Paul says that if he were trying to rebuild the old barn that he had come from he would be a transgressor all over again. He tried keeping the rules and working his tail off to please God but that did not work. He quit being a lawman to become a God man. The life of Christ showed him and enabled him to do that which was right and pleasing to God by identifying himself in the death of Christ Jesus. His ego was no longer central to what his life portrayed because life absorbed in rules only made him appear righteous and self-important making him ‘look’ good in the eyes of humankind. Now he was no longer driven to please God by his own self-efforts but it was Christ in him that now made the difference. Now Paul lived by faith in the Son of God who loved him and gave His life for him. Paul was no going to go back from where he came.

Paul was not going to build his life by human created legalism to a set of rules that had power over him. He destroyed its power when he realized that the Torah, the teachings of God given to Moses required only one basic thing, trusting faithfulness. If he were to go backward, he would truly be a sinner, and not just someone whom Judaizers falsely called a sinner. It would be abandoning everything that now made him free in his personal relationship with God. Paul said that if a living relationship with God came by rule keeping then Jesus died for nothing.

　

[Dew drenched]

Q4. (Galatians 2:15-21) What happens to the importance of Christ’s death if circumcision is deemed necessary to salvation?

The implication of having circumcision necessary for salvation is that Jesus Christ’s atoning work on the cross was simply not good enough. It was lacking something, it doesn’t have the power and ability to accomplish what is needed to secure our salvation. If it doesn’t have all that is needed then it has no power at all. God himself does not honor and respect the work of his own Son. His death on the cross was an exercise in futility, vain and a waste of time and effort. It is left up to something else, something more effective in order to bring about what is lacking from the cross. It is left up to some work like circumcision and the responsibility shifts from Christ and his ability to secure our salvation to our responsibility to secure this on our own, by our works of righteousness. It is basically left up to us. It no longer is who Christ is and what he has done; it now becomes who I am and what I have accomplished, or what the law has been able to accomplish through my efforts to follow it. Christ is weak, ineffective, and unnecessary if he can not secure our salvation through the cross.

Why was this issue of the sufficiency of the Messiah’s death so important in Paul’s day?

Practicing the law in all its finer points was not able to produce any form of salvation throughout all the history of the law. The law was weak through the flesh. It was never able to make perfect. The sacrifices were made over and over again without any lasting results. Men were sinners and lost in sins. Even the Jews who, in days of Paul, tried desperately hard to keep them yet could not keep them and only brought bondage and disappointment. “For by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” The only hope for salvation rested in the completed work of Christ on the cross.

Why was this issue important to Luther and the reformers?

To Luther and other reformers the cross was where forgiveness and redemption was found. It was the cross that was able to bring them to god and be accepted as righteous. The cross made a way for all believers to come to God boldly and without shame. No penitence and heavy burdens imposed on them by church officials was necessary to make things right

Why is it so important in our own day?

It is so important today because it is by grace that we are saved through faith. We are helpless and without hope except through the cross of Christ. Our works and self efforts to please God and gain his favor are not good enough. Our only hope today is the righteousness that comes through faith in the atoning work of Christ on the cross. God has so much respect for his son and what he accomplished on the cross that he is able to forgive and receive the worst of sinners, even me, and in doing so Jesus Christ receives all the glory and praise.

How does it affect the relative legalism of our congregations?

The cross of Christ will expose the weakness of religious practices and legalism. It takes the emphasis off of who I am and what I have done. I deserve nothing but judgment and condemnation. It puts the emphasis solely on Who Christ is and what he has done. It is all about Grace. The true gospel brings true righteousness and victory and liberty and life and relationship with the God of the universe.

[wifee]

4a)If circumcision or any other religious practise is necessary for salvation,Christ´s death is meaningless and he died for nothing.

B)In Paul´s day Jews thought keeping Law was sufficient to make right with God.Jewish Christians knew Jesus death paid price for their sins&believing in Jesus brough salvation,but kept up Law works as their cuture, with risk of slipping back into od Jewish thinking.

C)Luther had issues of works and laws of church, becoming respected as much as bible teaching.Paul is saying that we Jew,Gentile, (Catholic, protestant) are equal in God´s eyes,all sinners saved by grace alone..Reformation came so we wouldn´t have stiff necks, but would circumcise our hearts &replace walking in legalism with love for God and walking in His laws

D)Doing good with good values is a way of life, many unbelievers follow today but it doesn´t bring salvation, only through Christ´s death is this possible.

e)Our churches have many trappings of tradition,legalism, which encourages people´s thinking if follow these practices/works they are saved.We cannot save ourselves.Surrendering to Jesus is the only sure way to be justified before God.

[Craig]

Q4. (Galatians 2:15-21) What happens to the importance of Christ’s death if circumcision is deemed necessary to salvation? Why was this issue of the sufficiency of the Messiah’s death so important in Paul’s day? Why was this issue important to Luther and the reformers? Why is it so important in our own day? How does it affect the relative legalism of our congregations?

 

 If circumcision is deemed necessary to salvation then Jesus Christ's death on the cross meant nothing.  It would be in vain.  In fact, if this was so, then Jesus Christ is not a perfect and sufficient Savior.  Furthermore, Jesus plus anything else is not the gospel. Only Jesus saves or can be our Savior.  See John 3.

 

The rest of this question can best be summarized by saying that the grace of God is seen in his unconditional gift of salvation. When man tries to earn it, he is making it void.  It is no longer by grace if man deserves it or earns it.  Paul's final thrust in this passage at Peter is effective.  If Peter could obtain favor with God by Jewish observances, then Christ died for nothing.  He literally threw away His life.  Christ died because man could obtain righteousness in no other way -- not even by law-keeping.

 

The deepest heresy of all, which corrupts churches and fills human hearts with pride, is salvation by works. 

[GoRaysXD]

"Q4. (Galatians 2:15-21) What happens to the importance of Christ’s death if circumcision is deemed necessary to salvation? Why was this issue of the sufficiency of the Messiah’s death so important in Paul’s day? Why was this issue important to Luther and the reformers? Why is it so important in our own day? How does it affect the relative legalism of our congregations?" 

 

 

 

 Christ would have died in vain if Circumcision is necessary for salvation. In fact if this was so than Jesus Christ is not a perfect and sufficient salvation. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The rest of this question can best be summarized by saying that the grace of god is seen in this unconditional gift of salvation. When man tries to earn it he is making it void it is so no longer  by grace if man deserves it or earns it. Paul's final thrust in this passage at Peter is effective if Peter could obtain favor with God by Jewish observance's than Christ died for nothing he literally threw away his life Christ died because man could obtain righteousness in no other way not even by law-keeping.

 

 

 

 

[RD35]

If circumcision is necessary for salvation, then Christ died for nothing.

 

In the days of Paul the Jews were preaching a wrong gospel and they themselves believed that following the law was needed for one’s salvation.  So the issue of the sufficiency of the messiah’s death was so important.

 

In Luther’s days also law was preceding the works of Christ.

 

It is the same today in many churches, the issues which the early church faced in Paul’s days is still faced by many congregations.  People are confused especially new with the issue of their salvation.

[Thanking Joan]

The importance of Christ's death is underestimated if circumcision is deemed necessary for our salvation.

This issue ofsufficiency of Messiah's death was so important in Pauls days because keeping the law was considered more important than Christ dying on the cross for our sins and giving us eternal salvation.

It was so important to Luther and his reformers as well because at his time still law keeping was deemed necessary for salvation.

It affects the legalism of our congregations as well who comes up with laws and rules making it legal to receive salvation than the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross.

[JoanG]

If people insist on  following the old laws of the Jewish faith, they are stating in reality that Jesus came for nothing. His death proves useless. To have a New Covenant with God, the people had to believe in the death and resurrection of Christ. He is the only way that we can get into heaven. All believers in Christ have been give the same type of grace and forgiveness by God. One way of worship is not better than another. However, congregations can make or break a person's faith in God. Some places become stagnant and self- serving. They lose the heart of worship. They lose their faith, they lose their closeness to God. They lose the grace that God gave them because they start to rely on themselves and they start to inflate their egos. Some people lose everything that God gave us.

[lighthouse2014]

Q4. (Galatians 2:15-21) What happens to the importance of Christ’s death if circumcision is deemed necessary to salvation? Why was this issue of the sufficiency of the Messiah’s death so important in Paul’s day? Why was this issue important to Luther and the reformers? Why is it so important in our own day? How does it affect the relative legalism of our congregations?

If circumcision is deemed necessary to salvation, then Christ has died for nothing. The Mosaic law was for us to recognize we were sinners and needed a redeemer. Along with the law and the custom of circumcision the Judaizers were slipping back into the justification of the law.

This issue of the Judaizers slipping back into the law and circumcision was a very important issue in Paul's day. Had he allowed the Judaizers to continue disrupting the Gentiles with this requirement it could have disrupted the spreading of the gospel.

To Luther and the reformers this issue of circumcision was being imposed upon the Gentile believers for redemption. In their day the church of Rome was imposing their requirements upon the nations, such as their idea's and requirements made Christ death of no effect. We were freed from sin by faith in Christ, not law and regulations set by men in the church high archie. 

In our day there are many congregations with their own tenets of belief and rules to follow. This should not be so, we are all followers of Christ, not a verity of congregations who they have it right. 

Most all congregations claim to follow Christ and his teachings, but most demand we worship Christ their way and their way of interpreting Gods word and what is and what is not necessary in our day and culture. God's word does not change or deviate to suit our time, culture and idea's of how it ought to be. 

[Lionwolf]

Q4. (Galatians 2:15-21) What happens to the importance of Christ's death if circumcision is deemed necessary to salvation? Why was this issue of the sufficiency of the Messiah's death so important in Paul's day? Why was this issue important to Luther and the reformers? Why is it so important in our own day? How does it affect the relative legalism of our congregations?

If circumcision is deemed necessary to salvation then Christ died for nothing. Christ's sacrifice on the cross brings justification through faith and the law does not bring justification. That is the central point of Christ's sacrifice, justification through faith. The law makes us aware of sin but does not save. Paul understood that Jesus ended the law as far as salvation, we do not rely on the law for our salvation. Luther read Galatians and was awakened to it's truth. He realized all the legalism and ceremony was not necessary. Christ's sacrifice is the same today as it was yesterday and will be tomorrow. Based on the truth in Galatians legalism is something we need to always be on guard against.

[Annie343]

IMPORTANCE OF CHRIST'S DEATH WHEN CIRCUMCISED IS OFFERED: It is essential - it gives the right response to God (faith not the law); the law's role was to lead people to Christ (however, He is the end of the law - fulfilled by Him); not looking to  Christ for justification by faith but depending on the law as the source for salvation; it was the love of Jesus for us not following a prescription (formula); Judaizers were teaching that Christ (grace) alone was not a true salvation without following the law; saying His action was not good enough; the purpose of the law was to cause us to know we are a sinner; the law condemns; it did not solve the problem of sin; in essence it is saying that we not able to be righteous on faith alone; not understanding the grace of God 

SUFFICIENCY OF THE MESSIAH'S DEATH: need to look and understand the importance of the cross; it is  justification by faith and not to be earned (righteousness); it puts to death the self which tries to please God by keeping the law; it undermines this foundation of Christianity; otherwise it would nullify the grace of God; people stand as sinners before God; His dying on the cross was to take our punishment for sin; accepting that there was a purpose for Him to die on the cross; picture of God's love to us; providing the basis of living for God

IMPORTANT TO LUTHER AND THE REFORMERS: knowing justification changed his life (not trying to earn salvation) but being the work of God; we receive God's righteousness and He wanted to change the church to be aligned to God's will; to show the intense love for God's work (let go of the church's hypocrisy) - it being ineffective of the way the church was dealing with the problem of sin; life pointing to Christ and challenging the activity concerning the selling of indulgences and its role to salvation; his 95 theses on the authority of the Catholic Church for change; salvation being an act of God's mercy; to turn the church back to a foundation of God's Word and the gospel; we are sinners at the root of our being

[smithjeanne]

Circumcision for salvation adds works to the message of grace and is an unnecessary and unbiblical burden upon all believers. This issue needed to be resolved because it was president setting. If works were added to the salvation message of faith in Messiah alone, it would bring perpetual harm to the gospel message through the ages. Once again, the Reformers dealt with this same issue and acted upon resolving it to keep the original gospel message pure and biblical.It's also important in our day because the pure and biblical gospel message is becoming polluted with a works-based "social justice" gospel which is nothing more than Marxism in a "christian" wrapper. It is no gospel at all. Keeping the gospel message within a grace-based framework blows legalism apart and brings us back to the original gospel message. We do good works because of grace;the grace G-d shows sinners by our redemption.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Circumcision as a mandatory condition for salvation is totally contrary to Christ's sacrifice on Calvary.

Cbrist's death on the Cross was very crucial.  Due to Christ's death and Resurrection, the Gentiles were now be beckoned to become part of the People of God.   Prior to that, Gentiles were deemed as aliens.

During Martin Luther's time,  the faith was mingled with various spurious teachings.   The Gnostics of the 12th century  called Albigenses and Cathars were mixing Christianity with Gnosticism.  15th century ...Christianity and superstitious practices were prevalent.  Though Luther was a RC professor and a monk, it took time for him to realize that it is by GRACE ALONE.  He had religion and was a theologian in the monastery, but trusted also in his works to get to heaven.

As for legalism today, rules are necessary for a steady and fruitful Christian lifestyle.   But we need to know that we are not saved by good deeds.  Some of our Amisb friends have gone that route.  Rules In regards to the use of cars, electricity  and electronic gadgets and dress don't save us.  We believe that God's informing of grace does an outworking in our lives.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Krissi]

1,2) Any behavioral demand -- does this include baptism and the eucharist? -- hacks at the singular focus we should have on Jesus' death on the cross and subsequent resurrection. The sufficiency of the cross is not just it's centrality, but includes the idea that nothing else matters. In Paul's day, when most Christians were Jewish converts, the sufficiency of the cross means that Jewish laws were no longer necessary for salvation. This was a watershed in their thinking, one of those, "can't turn back ..." ideas. 

3) The reformation replayed Paul's original argument with the Jewish-Christians, except the church by the 1400s had evolved into a system of indulgences and forgivenesses. In other words, they had reinstated another set of laws in the place of the cross. In Luther's words," The true gospel has it that we are justified by faith alone, without the deeds of the Law." 

 4-5) Today, people set up "additions" to the gospel, things not necessarily for salvation but are supposed to be necessary to live a fruitful Christian life. For some, the second baptism in the spirit is an additional "law" that Christians have to obey; this includes speaking in tongues. For others, the liturgy itself is law-like in it's standardization of spiritual expression. Some churches -- the Amish -- have their own odd laws such as not using electricity. Nuns, priests and some pastors set themselves apart with their religious garb or costumes, not wanting to look par with the rest of us. This list is long. Sadly.