Q3. Abiding and Indwelling

[Pastor Ralph]

Q3. (John 15:4-5) What does it mean “to abide”? What is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints? How do these verses support it? What does abiding have to do with “mutual indwelling,” of a “personal relationship”? How well are you abiding?

[JanMary]

Q3. (John 15:4-5) What does it mean “to abide”?

 

The Lord gave me a "picture of abiding" when I asked Him about His reason for parables several years ago.  I went out to water potted plants on the patio and was startled to see a dragon fly hanging by his tongue from a blue flower. I thought he must be dead, but when I got close, his eyes rolled back in his head to look at me. Wings stretched wide he stayed there for several hours. I went again, and touched his body to see if he was alive, and again he looked at me by rolling his eyes . After three hours I decided to pick the flower with him attached and move him where birds wouldn't get him, because we were leaving for several hours.  As I approached this time, I heard in my spirit: "REST IN ME, FEED ON ME, ABIDE IN ME"  What a vivid visual of abiding.....attached permanently,  feeding continually,   leaning my entire body, soul and spirit upon Jesus....powerless in my own strength....totally dependent upon my Lord! Before I could pick the flower, the dragonfly, having accomplished the Lord's purpose for me, flew away.

 

What is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints?

 

It is not saving faith alone, but faith which continues and perseveres no matter what....a true love relationship flowing both from Him and to Him.

 

How do these verses support it? What does abiding have to do with “mutual indwelling,” of a “personal relationship”?

 

These verses tell us: Dwell in Me and I will dwell in you. Live in Me and I will live in you...Apart from vital union with Me, you can do NOTHING!

 

How well are you abiding?

 

Since the dragonfly parable, to my delight, I'm abiding, feeding, and resting in Him. If I begin to feel distant, I remember that the flower was constant. It was the dragonfly who disconnected and flew away. The Lord is faithful, I only need to run back into His Arms if I begin to rely on my own strength. His promise is that He will never leave me nor forsake me....He lives in me to the end of the age, and then I'll be with Him in Heaven forever!

[SoiKosum]

(John 15:4-5) What does it mean “to abide”? What is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints? How do these verses support it? What does abiding have to do with “mutual indwelling,” of a “personal relationship”? How well are you abiding? 

 

Abide means to "hold on to" or "continue in" and in this context to hold on to or continue in Jesus' teachings. In the metaphor of the vine and the branches, "abiding" refers to being intimately connected to and receiving nourishment from the vine. The perseverance of the saints means that all those who are truly born again will be kept by God's power and will persevere as Christians until the end of their lives. If we don't hold on to Jesus' teachings, we will not be able to persevere until the end. Our foundation will crumble in the event of a storm and the house will be washed away. 

 

This mutual indwelling is part of the Father's relationship with the Son. The Father and Son are the

exemplars of what our relationship is to be with Jesus constant living together, sharing a deepening relationship of love and (on our part) obedience.

[blezed]

(John 15:4-5) What does it mean “to abide”?

• Abide means to hold to or continue in.  Those that abide in Jesus word don't give up or allow circumstances to weaken their faith.

What is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints? How do these verses support it?

• The perseverance of the saints means that all those who are truly born again will be kept by God's power and will persevere as Christians until the end of their lives.  These verses support this statement because they say if you remain in me and I will remain in you. 

What does abiding have to do with “mutual indwelling,” of a “personal relationship”? How well are you abiding?          

• Mutual indwelling is part of the Father's relationship with the Son.  They are an example of what our relationship is to be with Jesus.  I am a work in progress that has come a long way from what I used to be. 

[Clarence]

Q3. (John 15:4-5) What does it mean “to abide”? What is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints? How do these verses support it? What does abiding have to do with “mutual indwelling,” of a “personal relationship”? How well are you abiding?

 

To abide means to stick to, remain, stuck fast. The Greek word used in tlhis passage is menō. The Calvinists believed that one could never lose their salvation in Jesus Christ-true believers will ultimately persevere in faith (in spite of failures) such as not to lose their salvation (http://www.theopedia.com/Perseverance_of_the_saints). "Nothing can seperate us from the love of God" (Romans 5:8). So if one abides in Christ, like a grape vine, fed and nourished spiritually by him-it is he who bears much fruit (v5). Believers can do nothing, of any significance for the kingdom of God without abiding, trusting in Christ. "Abiding", is everything to do with a personal relationship with Christ- my abiding leaves a lot to be desired for a lot of the time.

[haar]

Q3. (John 15:4-5) What does it mean "to abide"? What is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints? How do these verses support it? What does abiding have to do with "mutual indwelling," of a "personal relationship"? How well are you abiding?

 

"To abide" is to know and continue to cling or hold to Jesus and His word through a personal loving relationship.

 

To continue to persevere and abide in the Lord despite persecution.

 

Abiding involves mutual indwelling. Jesus in the Father and we in Jesus and holy trinity in us.

 

I abide in Jesus but need to now continuously do so all the time and every circumstance.

 

 

 

 

 

[hanks]

Q3. (John 15:4-5) 

What does it mean "to abide"? 

What is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints? 

How do these verses support it? 

What does abiding have to do with "mutual indwelling," of a "personal relationship"? 

How well are you abiding?

To abide means to stay/remain where you are. As born-again believers we have been placed in Christ and in our daily walk we must abide/remain in constant fellowship with our Lord. Just as a branch abides in a vine by drawing its life support nutrients from the vine; so it is with us. We need to abide in Jesus by spending time in prayer, reading, meditating, studying, and obeying His Word. We remain in fellowship with our fellow believers as well as with Jesus. We can only bear fruit as we abide in the vine. Once we have been elected by God, and truly saved, the Holy Spirit will help us grow in the Christian life and keep us faithful to Himself throughout our life. We will persevere to the end and receive eternal life to be together in heaven with our Lord Jesus. In John 6:39 we read that Jesus does the will of the Father and everyone God gave to Christ will be saved, The same in John 10:28 Jesus said that those who remain in Him, those who are His sheep, will receive eternal life, and “no one can snatch them out of my hand”. So we know that those who persevere to the end, have been truly born again – this is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints. I feel that with the help of the Holy Spirit I have grown spiritually over the years. Especially when I compare my actions, attitudes, and thoughts with how I was years ago. I can only thank our Heavenly Father for persevering with me – a sinner saved by grace. Without Christ, we can do nothing! 

 

[Jen]

Q3. (John 15:4-5) What does it mean "to abide"? What is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints? How do these verses support it? What does abiding have to do with "mutual indwelling," of a "personal relationship"? How well are you abiding?

Abide means to remain.  We don't pack up and move.  In Christ we are home whether here or in heaven.  Christ also lives in us through the Holy Spirit without which we would not remain because we cannot do it on our own power no matter how much we determine.  We are in constant need of nourishment from the vine.  The doctrine of the perseverance of the saints (assuming they have been truly born again) will be kept by the power of God and will persevere as Christians ( remember we are in emery territory, behind the enemy lines) until the end of our (their) lives by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Without constant abiding in Christ, His Word and prayer, I tend to slip back into old patterns.  Oh Lord BeThou Near To Me.

God Bless!

Jen

Numbers 6:24-26

[Delivered]

Q3. (John 15:4-5) What does it mean "to abide"?

 To abide means a relationship is developing on the foundation of “commitment” – it is a two way relationship – as I abide in Him, he promises to abide in me, in other words, faith becomes a “vow,” a marriage contract established on “love”.

 

Q4. What is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints?

Perseverance is the fruit of patience that is developed in the saints, those who through the faith of Jesus, purpose in their heart to keep the commandments of God. (Rev 14:12-13)

 

Q5. What does abiding have to do with "mutual indwelling," of a "personal relationship"?

A relationship develops because the desire of the heart is to abide in the Messiah; it is in that love for him that makes it “personal,” a relationship cannot grow if one no longer desires to abide in each other.

 

[RebeccaMallinson]

To abide means to remain with or in a place, in this case, to stay with Jesus.  The perseverance of the saints is that we cannot make one reform and then forget to continue to try to improve.  We must not backslide after a good start.  We must continue day by day through many trials and temptations.  Verse 5b supports this doctrine because Jesus says ‘Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing.’  It is not possible to have eternal life except through Jesus who is the Way, the Truth and the Life.  This means that we must not separate ourselves from him.  The analogy with the branch cut off from the vine demonstrates this very clearly as well.  ‘Abiding’ shows a personal relationship and closeness with Jesus, because it helps us visualise how close Jesus is to us.  It is an old fashioned word meaning ‘to live with’.  I work on ‘abiding’ with Jesus at times more successfully than at other times.  Something I find helps is to simply sit quietly and mentally say, 'Lord Jesus'.

[lighthouse2014]

Q3. (John 15:4-5) What does it mean “to abide”? What is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints? How do these verses support it? What does abiding have to do with “mutual indwelling,” of a “personal relationship”? How well are you abiding?

To abide means we hold to or continue in Jesus teachings. We don't give up because of worldly problems or persecutions. Our faith continues to believe in Christ and his love for us.

The doctrine of the "Perseverance of the Saints" is all those that are truly born again will be kept by God's power, we will perserve in Christ till the end of time. We abide by continuing in the faith, to love one another as he loves us.

Mutual indwelling of a personal relationship has everything to do with abiding in the vine of God. We continue to abide because we have maintained our faith and hope in the Lord Jesus. Regardless of persecutions or trails from our faith in Christ we continue perseverance in the faith. We have a personal relationship with him through the Holy Spirit which he has sent to dwell with us.

Regardless of everyday pressures that come upon us for everyday living, prayer is the only way I maintain my relationship with Christ. Though I'm encouraged and strengthened to carry out daily living for Christ and God the Father, I'm in total dependence on Him for my very being.     

[quilter]

3.

1.To abide means to believing Jesus is God's son. Receiving him as Savior and Lord. Doing what God says'

2. To be born again and have faith that he will be with us until the end of time.

3.Many people try to do good and be honest but Jesus says the only way to have a good live is to live close to him.

4.Apart from Jesus our efforts  are unfruitful to stay in a personal relationship with  the vine (God)  we have to prune our lives as Jesus would have us to do.

5 I try to live daily for my Savior and there our days I fell. I praise the Lord for the gift of repentance and this is what I try to do every day.

[PeteD]

Lesson 26 Question 3

To abide means to be close, to look to, remain in.

The doctrine of perseverance of the saints speaks to an ongoing and enduring abiding with - being close to or looking to Jesus. We can be assured of our eternal security if we abide in Christ - stay close - receive his nourishment, but in John 15: 4 - 5 there is also a warning for US to remain  close lest we whither on the vine. If we stay close to Jesus, the Shepherd, nothing can snatch us away.

God helping me, I shall endure and continually look to Jesus.

[Stanley Tavaziva]

Q3. (John 15:4-5) What does it mean "to abide"? What is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints? How do these verses support it? What does abiding have to do with "mutual indwelling," of a "personal relationship"? How well are you abiding?

 

Jesus wanted His followers to know exactly how to live a fruitful life and understand what God Himself would do to make it happen. He who abides in Him, and in him, we bear much fruit.  By this God is glorified, that we bear much fruit and live fruitful lives.

 

Fruit is not limited to soul winning. In this chapter, answered prayer, joy, and love are mentioned as fruit and describe additional fruit: qualities of Christian character.

Many people try to be good, honest people who do what is right. But Jesus says that the only way to live a truly good life is to stay close to him, like a branch attached to the vine. Apart from Christ our efforts are unfruitful. Are you receiving the nourishment and life offered by Christ, the vine? If not, you are missing a special gift he has for you.

 

When things are going well, we feel elated. When hardships come, we sink into depression. But true joy transcends the rolling waves of circumstance. Joy comes from a consistent relationship with Jesus Christ. When our lives are intertwined with his, he will help us walk through adversity without sinking into debilitating lows and manage prosperity without moving into deceptive highs. The joy of living with Jesus Christ daily will keep us level-headed, no matter how high or low our circumstances.

 

We are to love each other as Jesus loved us, and he loved us enough to give his life for us. We may not have to die for someone, but there are other ways to practice sacrificial love: listening, helping, encouraging, giving. Think of someone in particular who needs this kind of love today. Give all the love you can, and then try to give a little more.

The fruit of the Spirit is the spontaneous work of the Holy Spirit in us. The Spirit produces these character traits that are found in the nature of Christ. They are the by-products of Christ’s control—we can’t obtain them by trying to get them without his help. If we want the fruit of the Spirit to grow in us, we must join our life to his. We must know him, love him, remember him, and imitate him. As a result, we will fulfil the intended purpose of the law—to love God and our neighbours. Which of these qualities do you want the Spirit to produce in you?

 

Faith must be more than belief in certain facts; it must result in action, growth in Christian character, and the practice of moral discipline, or it will die away (James 2:14-17). A life of faith leads to learning to know God better, self-control, patient endurance, godliness, and loving others. These actions do not come automatically; they require hard work. They are not optional; all of them must be a continual part of the Christian life. We don’t finish one and start on the next, but we work on them all together. God empowers and enables us, but he also gives us the responsibility to learn and to grow. We should not be surprised at or resentful of the process.

To be constantly in prayer, read the word as a continual part of my Christian life.

[pickledilly]

To abide is to remain, to dwell, to continue on in something.  While we're responsible for many practical obligations to living out our faith, this doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints is ultimately about our eternal security in Christ.  Anyone truly saved from divine judgment and born of the spirit will forever trust in Christ, and while we often fail Him in our journey we are still sealed by the Spirit and secured with the Father.  I’ve been in discussions with some who use these verses to argue that saved people can reject God, then “lose” their salvation and be cut from the vine when they don’t endure in obedience and fruitfulness.  But I see John 15:4-5 as a picture of what God has done in establishing this abiding relationship and describing the evidence of it (persevering in faith to the end), rather than a command for some impossible effort to humanly maintain a position in Christ that can fail and lead to removal from that position.  

 

When studying what Jesus taught the disciples, I always try to remain aware that He was teaching Jewish people who were not yet “Christians” with a secured relationship to God through the Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14).  That relationship could not happen until Pentecost.  These followers had believed in the words of Jesus and were “clean” before God (Jn.15:3). But what He said here about clean branches is set between verses 2 and 6, which give a specific context.  I understand this to be a contrast with the unfruitful branches under the covenant of Law who were unclean because of unbelief in the Word made flesh.  The disciples had to understand that the Jews who rejected Jesus as the True Vine (as a nation and as individuals) and refused to abide in Him (as evidenced by the absence of spiritual fruit in their lives) would be cut off and destroyed.  This word of warning is for any “impostor” who thinks himself to be a righteous branch but has no genuine reliance and trust in Christ as the Vine.

 

I think Jesus was encouraging and assuring these believers that the spiritual fruitfulness in their lives and their perseverance in faith were reliable evidence of the relationship they had with Him - like branches firmly attached, integrated, growing, and bearing fruit on the vine. For anyone growing on His Vine, there will be the constant sustenance and flow of His energy that empowers us to spiritually mature in obedient faith and produce fruit in His likeness.  We are “in Him” and He is in us, like the branch and vine are unique parts of the same plant with distinctive capabilities and purposes yet each incorporated with the other.  When we are dwelling in that and holding to His Word without resistance, there is no interruption in the back-and-forth symbiotic union that is our personal relationship. It is intimate and unhindered.  And the teaching here is that anyone who has this type of union and relationship with Christ will persevere and endure in it.  Yes, there is inevitable pruning by the Father for all the reasons and benefits of growth we discussed in Q1, but never an end to this relationship by the separation of removal.

[royk]

Q3. (John 15:4-5) What does it mean "to abide"? What is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints? How do these verses support it? What does abiding have to do with "mutual indwelling," of a "personal relationship"? How well are you abiding?

 

We are doing the right think now, studying His word, meditating on these questions of this study. But what about later, when we have an opportunity to serve, or are challenged to do something different, like be more organized? Or help someone who is UGLY in their life, or ways of communicating?

 

Will we/I be indwelled enough to do the right thing? For me this works by trying to breath and go slow; then depending on what happens, if we're "driving at a slower speed," we might be a better servant.

 

How do we react to the signals coming up, or signal just past? It takes focus and good habit building, but still God makes it exciting by the surprises He give us. Better to stay in the moment than to think about abiding, its not the same thing.  The Holy Spirit will always give us the right choice.

 

[Joe_Applegarth]

What does it mean "to abide"?  Abide (Greek, meno) means to remain, stay or continue.

 

What is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints? How do these verses support it?    “Perseverance of the Saints” is aCalvinist doctrine that says that once you’ve been saved, you’re always saved no matter what you do.  Those who (wrongly) adhere to this doctrine are of the belief that once they’ve been saved they will never, under any circumstances, lose their salvation.  They believe that even if they backslide into their former sinful lifestyle they won't forfeit salvation, believing instead that they’ll simply lose fellowship with Christ Jesus. 

 

Okay, so what’s flawed in that kind of thinking?  Well to begin with, the Book of Hebrews tells us clearly to “Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.” (12:14)  Personally, I don’t believe that Christ Jesus views our continuing to live a sinful life after being saved as being holy!  In His own words in Matthew 7:21 He said that “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”  There’s certainly no ambiguity in that now is there?  The point that Jesus is making is clearly that, if you’re still sinning, you are not doing “the will of His Father” and at the end, He won’t know you!  In his letter to the Romans (8:13), Paul says; “if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.”  The bottom line?  Quite simply, if you continue to sin you are indeed living according to the flesh!  Again, there’s not one iota of ambiguity in what Paul’s trying to convey with those words.  In John 15:10 Jesus again tells us in His own words that, “If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.”  If you’re continuing to sin, you most certainly ARE NOT keeping His commands and you ARE NOT going to “remain (abide) in His love!  In John 15:6, here again Jesus leaves absolutely NOTHING to the imagination when he said, “If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.”  Think about that for a moment; if you’re still sinning you are most certainly not “remaining (abiding)” in Christ Jesus and He’s telling you exactly what’s going to happen to you!  And…I’ll conclude with this; "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire ... a man deserves to be punished ... who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him ..." (Hebrews 10:26-29)  If you are an adherent to this (false) doctrine I’ll pray for you; I’ll pray fervently that you’ll wake up before it’s too late. 

 

What does abiding have to do with "mutual indwelling," of a "personal relationship"?  To abide in Jesus means to keep his commandments and love God just as Jesus commands in Matthew 22:37–39, “’Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’  This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”   We “abide” in Christ and display our love of the Living God through our faith, prayers and personal commitment to Him ALWAYS!  Indwelling means simply that we dwell in Him, and He in us.  It means that there is a spiritual union, a “personal relationship” between God and us; God dwells in us in Spirit and grace and we in Him in faith and love.

 

How well are you abiding?  I have my faults but the Lord and I work on them every day so I guess you can say that (with His help) I’m doing pretty well for a mere human.

[Old Jerry]

To abide is to obey what Jesus is telling us to do. The doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints is to abide in Jesus. These verses support it because it is saying that we need to abide is Jesus in order to bear more fruit. Abiding means that we have a personal relationship with the Lord.

[Godswriter]

Q3. (John 15:4-5) What does it mean “to abide”? What is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints? How do these verses support it? What does abiding have to do with “mutual indwelling,” of a “personal relationship”? How well are you abiding?

To abide means obey and trust in Him completely. It means to abide in Jesus. They support it by we need to learn to abide in Jesus so we can bear fruit. Abiding means we have a personal relationship with the Lord. 

[Lisema Ralitsoele]

Q3. (John 15:4-5)

1.    What does it mean "to abide"? “To abide” is not just continuing in our faith. It is our being intimately connected to, embracing, clinging to and continuing to receive sustenance from Jesus without whom I am nothing and can do nothing. It is more or less like the baby in the mother’s womb.

2.     What is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints? The doctrine of the perseverance of the saints means that all those who are truly born again will be kept by God's power and will persevere as Christians until the end of their lives.

3.    How do these verses support it? Galatians 2:20 supports it by the declaration of my simultaneous crucifixion with Christ which implies the eternal death of my carnal self to make way for Him to live in me so that I am controlled by the Holy Spirit who seals me for Christ eternally.

4.     What does abiding have to do with "mutual indwelling," of a "personal relationship"? Abiding in Jesus testifies to a loving relationship whereby I am continually obedient to and, receiving spiritual sustenance from Him. And this spiritual feeding scheme cannot be done by remote control. It can only be accomplished by such a “personal relationship with Jesus Christ” that He also abides in me.

5.     How well are you abiding? I am abiding joyfully, lovingly, obediently, peacefully and to my heart’s content. It’s just by amazing grace.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Abide means to remain, continue and dwell.   The Greek word is "menos".  Epistle to the Hebrews stresses the point that we are to abide in Christ who is our Priest, Prophet and King; we are beckoned to be "inner court" Christains.  

God will give continuing graces to persevere in sanctified grace to those who diligently work out their salvation with fear and trembling.  God does expect Christians to live a sanctified life style; they cannot fall into a state of lethargy and presumption while disobeying the Holy Bible in matters of faith and morals.(Philippians 2:12-16).

We are referring to union and consecration to Christ--we have the mind of Christ, and one with Christ in purpose.  God  being in Christ, Christ being in God, and God and Christ being in each other.  Christ being in men (Colossians 1:27 ; Roman's 8:10); men and Christ being in each other (John 14:20).  It is in God that we live, and move, and have our being (Acts 17:28).

As far as I can tell,  I am abiding in Christ quite well.   These days of isolation have taken a toll on me.  Patience has worn thin indeed.  Days of monotony have set in.   Beginning earlier this month, a treasured Bible of mine disappeared.   Spent much time looking for it and scoured parking lots and roadsides.

[Irmela]

Q3. (John 15:4-5)

What does it mean "to abide"?

What is the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints?

How do these verses support it?

What does abiding have to do with "mutual indwelling," of a "personal relationship"?

How well are you abiding?

To abide means to stay in or to remain in.

Wayne Grudem begins his statement of the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints in this way: "The perseverance of the saints means that all those who are truly born again will be kept by God's power and will persevere as Christians until the end of their lives...."

In these verses "abiding" refers to being intimately connected to/to remain in and receive nourishment from the vine. Growing from the vine. (Being grafted into it)

"Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.  I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in Me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from Me you can do nothing." (15:4-5)

Mutual indwelling means that they are dwelling together, not as two but as one, it is a personal relationship, one with the other.  

The Vine is made up of the main trunk, the branches, the leaves, the fruit. 

So we too ought to be totally part of the Vine, the True, which is our Messiah.