Q2. Judgment and Discipline

[Pastor Ralph]

Q2. (1 Corinthians 11:29-32) Why has God brought judgment to the offending parties at Corinth? Isn't sickness and death rather harsh? How does God's discipline actually work for our good in the light of Hebrews 12:5-7?

[Jezemeg]

God brought judgement on the offending parties at Corinth in an attempt to draw them back into the Body of the Church, just as He brought judgement on those of the Israelites who strayed whilst in the wilderness, and afterwards. Humans unfortunately are slow to learn and loath to remember what happens when they live their lives in disagreement with God. It's not until something catastrophic happens to affect them personally that they actually notice God's displeasure. God's love is exhibited through Hebrews 12:5-7 because if He didn't desire our fellowship He wouldn't bother to try to correct us, He has the power after all to simply wipe us from His earth. Instead God gives us opportunity after opportunity to repent and turn back to His way, even though we so quickly forget what He has done for us and continually try to add our own agenda to His.

[Helenmm]

The Lord's Supper is never to be lightly taken. Everyone is to be treated equally and to partake equally of the feast, and all are to honour the Lord's body. It is not to descend into a burlesque or eating frenzy, but as a holy meal taken with due respect to the One who is thus honoured. To do less than this is to shame the memory of Jesus, and the gift of His body and blood. God is in authority, and does judge those who consistently offend Him.

Jesus' death was also rather harsh. We are not dealing in trifles here, but in the precious gift of the body and blood of the most high God's Son. Everything we do has its place in the eternal, and its consequence in the physical, and abuse of that which is important to God is dealt with severely. God has made it clear what we are supposed to do - for our own good only. The consequences of sin in this respect, viz sickness and death, are there to draw our attention to the matter so that we'll turn around and get things right. It also reminds us that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

We are to rejoice when God chastens us and corrects us, because it means we aresons anddaughters to Him. If we were not He would not bother with us. Correction is part and parcel of being a child of God. It grows us and we should welcome it. He is actually training us for very important positions as priests of the most High. We have to know how to operate in the kingdom of heaven under His authority. In these matters the authority is not a worldly one. God's discipline is teaching us how to operate in a different realm than our own.As in the story of the return of the arc to Jerusalem, and the smiting of Uzziah with leprosy, and Annanias and Saphira's deaths we are dealing with the holy things, and the holy One, and respect and fear is paramount.

[Blessed Me]

Q2. (1 Corinthians 11:29-32) Why has God brought judgment to the offending parties at Corinth?

Because they did not value the Lord's Supper! People were sick and weak because they didn't understand the importance of eating and drinking at the Lord's Table. Paul praised them for remembering him and for keeping the ordinances he gave to them. They had that down pretty good, they had religion down ok, praying with head covered, etc; however, what they did not have down in their hearts was "RELATIONSHIP" ------ We cannot love others until we love God first. It is at His Table we are reminded - we can do all things in Him who strengthens us. His table must never be just another ritual, just another tradition, if we do come to the Table in this manner, we will remain in a state of spiritual weakness.

How does God's discipline actually work for our good in the light of Hebrews 12:5-7?

Believers are in various stages of growth, growing in the Lord. In Hebrews, the writer addresses them as children, they should be farther along in their walk with the Lord and in spiritual understanding, but are still called children. Persecution was beginning and for them to stand strong when testings come from the world, God must correct them, chasten them, or their sin will find them out.

The growing process will help us to stand strong in the Lord when testings do come, and they will come. There are repercussion to each and every deliberate sin we do. Jeremiah 2:19 When the people of Israel were getting involved with all kinds of sin, God said, "Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and they backslidings shall reprove thee. Because He loves us, He corrects us for our good. It is part of our growing process, it is part of understanding when our Father speaks, we are to listen! When we are invited to eat at the Lord's Table, we are to come with a heart of rejoicing, as we eat and drink from His Table, we should come expecting to receive manna for our souls, strength to live each day to the glory of the Lord.

[charity]

R.C. Sproul wrote that the most perplexing theological question is not why there is so much suffering, but why does God tolerate us in our sinfulness. Considering how our sin must appear in God

[JustJeff]

When we are disobedient our Heavenly Father responds, to the degree of our disobedience. Throughout the Old Testament as His people rebelled against Him, He moved with a mighty hand. He used plagues, serpents, firey pits, invading armies, etc., all because of rebellion. Severe yes, to those who envision God as a kissey, kissey God. But He is not a flimsey, shallow God. He is a God greatly to be feared. A God who commands our respect and our obedience. He does not take lightly to those who agree to obey His commandments and then turn around and promptly do the fleshly thing (Ecc 5:4). When our Lord left us His Last Supper He commanded that we all share of the cup and of the loaf, clearly showing that He sees us as His one, singular body. The need to get an infant church in order required strict discipline and Adonai reacted to their disobedience accordingly.

As a person in Christ and as the member of a baby church, God has given me and us vivid and frequent examples of His chastisements. He separates the wheat from the chaff, He reacts to our stiffnecked times, He draws back from us when we remain unmoved. We have lost brethren and we have gained. All because of a love that is undieing, and uncomprehendable to mortal man. And through it all, those who remain have learned to love Him more. To never cease to praise and worship Him. And, that is why we serve and that is why He chastises us.

[Lion of Grace]

We are called to oneness and we are taught how we are to relate to each other. We are called to self discipline and what He instructs us to do from what we learn in the wholeness of the Bible. If we fail to do that, then He lets us know and corrects us. We grow stronger and firmer through these disciplines. I think the importance here is to remember this is mostly selfexamination and with GOD punishing! Everyone is on a relationship journey with God and learning different things. Some come into our churches very broken while others are further in their walk. The important thing is to remember the two things Jesus said. Love God first, then love your neighbor as yourself. Love covers over a multitude of wrongs!

God does the judging....only He sees hearts on the inside. Thank Heaven too....to be judged at the mercy seat as opposed to the human side! Ouch!

Sometimes God punishes me lightly...on things I don't fully understand and sometimes more severely on things He knows I know better about! Father knows best! He promises in the Word that when He punishes, He will be fair. When we as people try to punish, we aren't always fair....or even fully informed! Even if we are called to reprimand a brother or sister...it is always to be done in love and with the intent to bring them back into the fold!

We also have to remember we are one body made up of many. When we treat others unfairly or punish unjustly....that affects us as one too!

We are called to Godly living for sure, but that means something different than a Pharisee zeal at perfected legalism.

To me...if God is disciplining a son or a daughter because He loves them....then the least we can do is recognize they are His son or daughter! He doesn't take that lightly. If God disciplines to restore and because He loves them, then we can certaintly do the same and to remember....we dare not judge....lest we ourselves fall into the same sin. Most hardship is to be endured as discipline. We are trained by it. We are healed in it. We are called to live in peace and love and to be holy. We are called to see that no one misses the grace of God and no bitterness grows to cause trouble among ourselves.

Hebrews is such a powerful book to be read thoughtfully.

Thanks for this lesson!

[masika]

That some of the people had died may have been a special supernatural judgment on the Corinthian Church . This type of disciplinary judgment highlights the seriousness of the Communion service . The Lord's Supper is not to be taken lightly ; this new Covenant Cost Jesus His Life .It is not a meaningless ritual , but a sacrament given by Christ to help strengthen our Faith.

[haar]

God brought judment to the offending parties at Corinth because the sin was grave. Furthermore, the judgement was not damnation but corrective measure that was meant to reform the offending parties.

God loves His children so much that He will rather discipline them and save their souls rather than ignore them and they end up in ternal death.

Sickness can really be painful. However, I believe that the pain it produces is a desert experience that should draw us back to God in repentance. in my experience, people are mor prayerful when they are sick or have a problem. Once we repent and our relationship is restored, the punishment would have been justified because we would be saved from eternal damnation. I think death as a punishment may seem harsh. But I also think that death eventually arise where the offender does not respond to the corrective punishment at the sickness stage.

God loves us and is happy to see us remain in His Holiness in fellowship with Him. When we stray from Him, He becomes sad and has to use his "stick" to bring us back to the fold like a herd's man does to an animal going astray or leaving the herd. He punishes us because he loves us and wants us to ever remain with Him.

God brought judment to the offending parties at Corinth because the sin was grave. Furthermore, the judgement was not damnation but corrective measure that was meant to reform the offending parties.

God loves His children so much that He will rather discipline them and save their souls than ignore them and they end up in ternal death.

Sickness can be really painful. However, I believe that the pain it produces is a desert experience that should draw us back to God in repentance. in my experience, people are mor prayerful when they are sick or have a problem. Once we repent and our relationship is restored, the punishment would have been justified because we would be saved from eternal damnation. I think death as a punishment may seem harsh. But I also think that death eventually arise where the offender does not respond to the corrective punishment at the sickness stage.

God loves us and is happy to see us remain in His Holiness in fellowship with Him. When we stray from Him, He becomes sad and has to use his "stick" to bring us back to the fold like a herd's man does to an animal going astray or leaving the herd. He punishes us because he loves us and wants us to ever remain with Him.

[charisbarak]

The judgment brought to those at Corinth was pretty severe, but they had gone too far & were leading their brothers & sisters astray. I think God brings the jsut the right discipline we need. If we are hard-headed & just not getting it, or refusing to turn around & do the right thing it takes a greater discipline/judgment on us. How much better it would be if we judged ourselves & made those changes prior to taking communion....

God's discipline is perfect for us. It molds us into His image. Not easy to go through, but the very best for us!

[Eudora]

1 Corinthians 11:29-32

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Why has God brought judgment to the offending parties at Corinth?

The Lords Supper is a visible representation symbolizing the death of Christ for our sins. This type of disciplinary judgment highlights the seriousness of partaking the Last Supper. This is a Holy Sacrament.

Think about it, if anyone eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord unworthily, that person is guilty of sinning against the body and the blood of the Lord. That is why we should examine ourselves before eating the bread and drinking from the cup. If we eat the bread or drink the cup unworthily, not honoring the body of Christ, we are eating and drinking God's judgment upon ourselves.

We are even given an example of how death can come to those who take the sacrament unworthily. Look at Judas. He knew that he was holding the bag as they say. He had the price in his pocket. He even knew right down to the sheckle, how much he was willing to pay and his judgment was death, because he partook of this Last Supper with Jesus Christ, knowing that he was going to betray Jesus and the wages of sin, are death.

Just like the enemy is among us now, even as we partake in some of the houses of God, there are folks who know not what they do. They to will be judged because they haven

[PCHRIS]

Q2. (1 Corinthians 11:29-32) Why has God brought judgment to the offending parties at Corinth? Isn't sickness and death rather harsh? How does God's discipline actually work for our good in the light of Hebrews 12:5-7?

Maybe the judgement was harsh but so was the sin. Misleading their brothers and sisters, being greedy/drunkard, being self centred. When will the human race learn. Christ came to serve not be served! Where was the humility in the Corinth church?

As a loving father I discipline my children when they stray.

Our Heavenly Father does the same for us

[Lisa Rupert]

Q2. (1 Corinthians 11:29-32) Why has God brought judgment to the offending parties at Corinth? Isn't sickness and death rather harsh? How does God's discipline actually work for our good in the light of Hebrews 12:5-7?

There were so many good answers to this question. I thank all of you for giving me a little bit more.

I believe that God brought judgment to the offending parties in Corinth to try and put them back on the right track. We get so comfortable in our comfort zones that we believe that we are actually doing what God wants us to do. We forget that we are sinners too. I believe that if God didn't bring judgment on them they would bring eternal damnation upon themselves and wouldn't understand why this happened. We must remember that God loves us. He is our father and he is a great father. He is one who will set us on the right path when we go wrong. He wants us to be with him and he knows that we are mere humans and sometimes don't get it as quickly as we should. We get comfortable in what we are(sin) and what we do (sin) that we don't see any harm in it. We can't walk around believing that God will forgive us when we sin over and over and over again the same sin. We must nourish and grow in his love. Not stay the same. We can't nourish and grow if we don't see that the path we are on is a dead end and there is much more out there when we seek his love.

[pickledilly]

I can't state it any better than Pastor Ralph did in the lesson. We excuse our sins and then expect God to do the same. We simply don't take sin as seriously as He does. And we do this even with advance knowledge and warning! God brought judgment to the offending parties in Corinth because they were profaning and disrespecting the holiness of the Lord's Supper and all that it means. Part of that was they were demeaning and hurting other believers of their own Body. They were not rightly judging their own attitudes and behaviors towards others.

People who habitually treat others badly tend to have destructive personalities and/or emotional traits. People with unrestrained destructive personalities and/or emotional traits tend to suffer more stress and damage in their physical bodies. People with more stress and damage in their physical bodies tend to be sicker and die younger. Sickness and death are often natural consequences of prolonged sinful behaviors, attitudes, and emotions.

And then I believe that the LORD very well may elect to remove any believer who is actively detrimental to His kingdom work on earth. An unrepentant carnal Christian can do a lot of harm. We do tend to view death as the ultimate penalty, but that's not how heaven sees it. Death is simply our liberation from the presence and power of sin, our release from the confines of the physical world, our entrance into the glorious presence of God! What a shame it would be, though, to have to stand before the King empty-handed because of opportunity cut short, without rewards to offer back to Him in thankful worship.

In light of Hebrews 12:5-7, we should actually be grateful for God's discipline. These verses say that it proves that we are indeed His children! It also demonstrates His love and acceptance. Just like any responsible parent, God takes action to correct our rebellion, disobedience, and wandering. Once we're saved, His work in us is that of consecration - developing the nature of Christ in us, molding and shaping His character in us. He invests the time and effort (and patience!) that takes, using disciplinary actions when necessary, for our good. To become like Christ is the ultimate goal. It would be great if we'd all just always self-correct, but we're too flawed and apathetic and weak and self-absorbed to be transformed apart from the LORD's assistance through discipline. He allows suffering and uses the instruction of discipline to open our eyes to our sin and turn our hearts back to Him in repentance. Lord, thank you for love that is willing to do the hard thing required for my good. Help me endure it and be quick to repent!

[carroll]

Q2. (1 Corinthians 11:29-32) Why has God brought judgment to the offending parties at Corinth? Isn't sickness and death rather harsh? How does God's discipline actually work for our good in the light of Hebrews 12:5-7?

Judgment was brought to the offending Corinthians because they had sinned by not honoring the body and blood of Jesus Christ. Through self-indulgence and selfishness they failed to respect the holiness of the Lord

[steve.c]

Q2. (1 Corinthians 11:29-32) Why has God brought judgment to the offending parties at Corinth? Isn't sickness and death rather harsh? How does God's discipline actually work for our good in the light of Hebrews 12:5-7?

God has brought judgement on some members of the Corinthian church because they have disobeyed His teaching and, as I have answered in the previous question, not in a trival respect but in a manner which goes to the heart of living a Christian life. Yes, the punishment may seem harsh but so is the gravity of the offence, which is a direct challenge to God and the teaching of His Son.

In everything God is loving, even when we provoke His wrath and warrant His vengance. As a father disciplines his child, God disciplines us through hardship and suffering to mould us more into His image. A father disciplines out of love, because he wants the best of his child not because he obtains any satisfaction from seeing the discomfort of his child. In the same way, God wants the best for us, even if to achieve it we are to suffer to the extent of suffering ill health or dying prematurely. This certainly places the requirement for obedience to God into a proper prespective. It is something to be taken very seriously.

[godsanointed523]

Why has God brought judgement to the offending parties of Corinth?Isnt sickness and death rather harsh? How does God's discipline actually work for our good in the light of Hebrews 12(5-7)?

The reason for his judgement upon them was because they were doing all kinds of immoralites in the house of God.God wanted them to sanctify themselves and to keep their bodies holy but instead they were doing the opposites.Sickness and death are harsh but God wanted to teach them that it is about following in His ways and to have obedience when he says something.God says things so like that we can have obedience to the way that they have chosen.He wants us to be able to live a holy life before him and when we do not follow his calling and do the things that are said in the Bible then it is when we will suffer the punishment. Sickness and death i feel are something but in times past it has been worse cause we can not disobey and not be expected to answer to God.

God disciplines us cause he loves us.He is not doing it on purpose but because he wants what is best for us and our way of life.What would happen if our parents here do not discipline us when we do something wrong then we feel like we can keep doing it well it is the same thing with God,when we do not obey Him then there is some kind of punishment that has to be done so like that we learn fro our mistakes.

[linda bass]

Why has God brought judgment to the offending parties at Corinth?

They were approaching the Lord's Table in an unworthy manner. They were guilty of sinning against the Body and Blood of our Lord.

Isn't sickness and death rather harsh?

Not if we look at the punishment through God's eyes. A holy and righteous God isn't going to excuse sin.

As humans we tend to minimize the seriousness of sin. Or we divide sins into neat little catagories. Telling a little white lie is bad, but not as bad as lying under oath in a courtroom. Looking at an erotic magazine is considered sinful, but committing adultary is a worse sin. Striking a person in anger is wrong, but murdering that person is considered the bigger sin. I'm sure there are many who would say so what if the Corinthians got carried away at the Lord's Supper and turned it into a gluttonous feast? It's not like some big crime was committed. The point is Jesus had to die for all of mankind's sins, even the most trivial ones. So that little white lie put Him up on the cross just as sure as the sin of murder did.

We tend to see death as the ultimate punishment, however God sees it as a homecoming for His children.

I like the way Pickledilly puts it:

"And then I believe the LORD very well may elect to remove any believer who is actively detrimental

to His kingdom work on earth."

How does God's discipline actually work for our good in light of Hebrews 12:5-7?

God disciplines us because He loves us and wants us to mature in our faith. His desire is that we don't remain babies or children in the faith, but that we become mature men and women of the faith.

[sahala p.s.]

Q2. (1 Corinthians 11:29-32) Why has God brought judgment to the offending parties at Corinth? Isn't sickness and death rather harsh? How does God's discipline actually work for our good in the light of Hebrews 12:5-7?

God judges us his offending children in this world, because God wants us to be not condemned with the world. When God judges us, He is disciplining us. The punishment He gives is corrective punishment. When He disciplines us, He treats us as His sons. This discipline can be rather harsh that it results in sickness or premature death, because we resist it. If He disciplines us that causes our death, he see it as a homecoming. He does not want to reduce the seriousness of sin, but he loves us, so that all his children get eternal death.

God

[Don W]

It seems to me that God has brought judgment to the offending parties at Corinth because they refused to confess their sins and repent of them before they partook of Holy Communion; and as they were being chastised for their behavior, they hardened their hearts against the Lord and still kept on refusing to obey Him and His Word to them. Both sickness and death seem to be rather harsh to us but it

[Debra]

The offending parties at Corinth need to realize the seriousness of what they are doing. I don't think sickness and death is harsh when we are talking about sinning against the Lord's body. The people of Corinth needed to understand that judgement is real and to be disciplined. In the light of Hebrews 12:5-7, facing hardship builds you up so you can endure all life throws at you!!

Everyone needs discipline, ''For what son is not disciplined by his father''. Hebrews 12:5-7, again. We discipline our children as indeed we were disciplined as children!

[Commissioned]

Q2. (1 Corinthians 11:29-32) Why has God brought judgment to the offending parties at Corinth?

God brought judgment to the offending parties at Corinth because they had sinned and His judgment upon them was a corrective punishment.

Isn't sickness and death rather harsh?

In God's corrective punishment the results could be sickness and death, but as is stated in Proverbs, God only punishes those He love and has accepted as sons; and that's a great place to be.

"My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth."

How does God's discipline actually work for our good in the light of Hebrews 12:5-7?

We are admonished to:

"

Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?"

(Hebrews 12:5-7)

When we are disciplined it is for our benefit that we might grow as sons of God.

[Craig]

God brought punishment to the offending parties at Cornith because they did not stop their sinful behavior so God dealt with the sin in their lives.

Sickest and death is not harsh because their behavior was affecting the spiritual lives of those around them, both in the church and outside of it. Eternal spiritual realities are of the gravest importance and have eternal ramifications. The behavior of a professing Christian is important and serious. If a Christian cannot or will not take care of sin in their lives that affects others, God will. The eternal destiny of others is on the line. With this in mind, sickest or death for Christians who are openly sinning is not too harsh.

God's discipline works in the lives of those professing Christians who are open to it.

[AngelOnLine]

Q2. (1 Corinthians 11:29-32) Why has God brought judgment to the offending parties at Corinth?

Because they continued to sin and did not repent but minimized their sins and the effects of their sins. God brought judgment because He wanted to bring them back close to Him.

Isn't sickness and death rather harsh?

No, because we minimize the seriousness of our sins. We make excuses for them and get angry because God won

[Jewell]

God has brought judgment to the offending parties "because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son." Sickness and death may seem harsh, however when we tend to minimize the seriousness of sin, God will deal with our sins as he sees appropriate (what it takes to get our attention back on Him). According to Hebrews 12:5-7, we should endure hardship as discipline and see it as God treating us as His child.