Pastor Ralph Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God’s good gifts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanMary Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? I think that would be to justify their dependence upon alcohol rather than their dependence upon their Creator. Sort of like "It's His fault...He legitimized it!" Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? Wine is a symbol of joy, gladness and celebration in the Bible. Excess is prohibited..."Do not be drunk with wine but be filled with the Holy Spirit." (A former pastor claimed that "Jesus only created the illusion that it was wine"...which indicates that his need to prohibit alcohol completely due to his own weaknesses, allows him to imply that Jesus was a deceiver! How sad is that???) How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God’s good gifts? When we walk by and live in the power of the Holy Spirit, we yield control to Him...and His wisdom and power to live balanced lives, neither legalistic nor licentious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerbrand van Schalkwyk Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? They are looking for an excuse to justify worshipping their idol. They are trying to say Jesus allowed drinking wine. Yes Jesus did, and He Himself drank wine, often- see Math11:19. There is a big difference in drinking wine and abusing wine. Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness?Drunkenness How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God's good gifts? By bearing the fruit of the Spirit. One part of love is self discipline. Enjoy wine but moderately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puritu Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 People who over indulge in anything always look for a plausible excuse to justify their excess. Often quoting the word of God out of context. They actually miss the miracle which is an unusual or wonderful event that is believed to be caused by the power of God. Makes me think of the song look beyond the bread you eat see your Saviour and your Lord. Look beyond the notion of wine and see the miracle performed one of love, compassion and understanding of the situation. Using all given to us in moderation shows our love to God and what he has given us to take care of and to treat with respect acknowleding all is from his bounty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God’s good gifts I try not to be judgemental towards alcoholics, as alcoholism is a sickness. I have a friend who has had problems in the past with alcohol and possibly he still does at times (we do not talk about it as it is his business and he has not brought the subjet up for a long time now). I'm not even sure that he is an alcoholic however, perhaps he is a compulsive drinker. Of course, drunkenness is more wrong than drinking. The question is what constitutes drunkenness? It may be easy to justify saying to one's self, tipsy is ok. It is probably subjective. I have chosen not to have alcohol in my home although I am not a teetotaler. So one way to avoid imbibing excessively is to restrict access (for myself). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Williams Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Excess of anything is not good. We want to be sober in mind. We want to honor God in all we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blezed Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle because of all the drinking that's going on. They would look at it as nothing being wrong to over indulged in drinking. Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God’s good gifts? Drunkenness is wrong. I feel that there is nothing wrong in drinking as long as you do it moderately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzella Maupin Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 I feel it is what they identify mostly which is the drinking. The spirit of drinking is in the person and a deliverance is definitely a need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar Jim Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? "Jesus turned water into wine and made plenty of it. What's wrong with me drinking plenty of it?" Alcoholics will always defend their right to drink to excess. Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? Drunkenness of course. Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his bad stomach. There's nothing whatever wrong with having an alcoholic drink. We shouldn't drink to excess though. We're told not to be drunk with wine but to be filled with the Spirit (of God). Various denominations will denounce drinking any alcohol. I believe this to be because they're in the business of helping people put thier lives back together after they've been ruined by alcohol abuse. In the case of the Salvation Army, one of their main focuses is on helping people beat addictions. They also forbid gambling because it can be addictive as well. As far as I know they don't even have Holy Communion with grape juice. How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God’s good gifts? Self-control is the key. We need to be aware of alcohol and other things taking over our powers of reason. We have to know when to stop indulging. With some people that could mean having just one drink. And if you can't stop at one . . then stop at none. I haven't drunk alcohol in years, apart from one beer on my birthday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanks Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God's good gifts? Perhaps they are looking for a reason to justify drinking alcohol. I don’t see anything wrong with drinking wine as long as it is done in moderation. It is like everything else in life – it must be done in moderation. However, because of the terrible consequences suffered by the misuse of alcohol in our society, it might be wisest to abstain altogether. There can, of course, be no justification for any form of drunkenness. As Christians, we can all enjoy God’s good gifts, but in doing so we must consider the effect of our actions on others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmmelo9 Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Hello, Talk about alcohol is always difficult. Why? Speaking for myself, I think alcohol a big problem. AnyWay! We have here two things. Water and Wine. Water: no smell, no taste, no color. Wine: with smell, with taste, with color and so strong, like our lives with Christ. This passage has a spiritual meaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 When anyone decides to indulge in anything, one has to decide if any is ok ever and if it's ok is it ok now and if so, to what extent- all ethical questions. The addict by definition is one who indulges in whatever to a degree that is harmful- yet he continues to indulge.The Bible here in our passage before us and elsewhere clearly makes the case that it's ok to drink alcohol. But as others have pointed out, the Bible has much to say about over indulging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delivered Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? If an alcoholic is quick to point out this miracle as the miracle that condones sin, drunkenness, I would have to say, it is in their ignorance of what God’s word says that they speak, it is sad to say and a reminder to us all, no matter what “OUR” addictions may be, we often find ourselves with the need to put the blame elsewhere, when God directs us to look within. Q. Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? God tells us “excess” of wine, drunkenness, is wrong, (1Peter 4:3) Q. How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God's good gifts? God directs the believer unto a narrow path called, “DISCIPLINE” – “SELF-CONTROL” – (1Corinthians 9:25-27) is a reminder to us, every man that strives in the games, runs the race, must exercise “SELF-CONTROL” in “All Things”, and to do it with a purpose, that we will receive an incorruptible crown, therefore, we are to bring the body into bondage, and for the Christian, for those who have the “Power” living in them, we can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lighthouse2014 Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God’s good gifts? Alcoholics are quick to bring out the miracle Jesus performed by turning the water into wine. They may say, "see Jesus created wine, no sin in drinking it". Jesus was a devout Jew, who kept all the laws, Jew's drank wine at the evening meal, it was their culture therefore, Jesus drank wine at the evening meal at home. At the last supper with his disciples he offered up wine as a cup of his blood, to be shed for many. Neither the Lord or the apostles forbid drinking of wine, but they did forbid getting drunk and committing debauchery, this is sinful when we have over indulged ourselves. We can enjoy drinking wine the fruit of the vine, but we must do it sensible and to the Glory of the Lord. In living for the Lord we are not to over indulge in wine or cause our brother's or sister's in Christ to stumble. This maybe sinful to them but not to us, therefore we should refrain from strong drink in their presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebeccaMallinson Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 I think alcoholics often grasp at straws to support their status quo as it is extremely hard to beat addiction. Drunkenness is wrong, not wine-drinking. Jesus mentions elsewhere that he is accused of being a glutton and drunkard, which shows us that he liked to drink, even if ‘drunkenness’ was probably an exaggeration. As well as drinking himself, he uses vineyards and grape vines in his parables without any condemnation. Most importantly he asks us to commemorate his death with bread and wine. We can avoid excesses by bearing in mind Jesus’s teaching that a man cannot love two masters. In that instance he was referring to money, but he could equally have been talking about any other excess, such as sex, fashion or addictions to alcohol or drugs. These can all become forms of idolatry. We need enough money to eat, to be clothed and we should enjoy the things that God created. He gave us the ability to make wine and, as mentioned, wine is referred to many times in the Bible in positive terms. Problems start if we become obsessive about anything as this creates false gods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haar Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God's good gifts? Because Jesus himself made wine out of water to be taken. Drunkenness is wrong and also believe a Christian should not drink any alcoholic wine because drunkenness starts from drinking just a small alcoholic wine. The difference is in the alcohol. Non alcoholic wine is what we should drink and enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Oh don't we just love to justify our sin. Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness. I would say for now drunkenness however: How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God's good gifts. If we cannot control how much we drink then maybe the first glass of wine is wrong. Something we should flee from. There were other gifts there to enjoy, good food and good fellowship. God Bless! Jen Numbers 6:24-26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillards Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 Drunkenness is just another way of putting something else above God- others do same with cigarettes, food, their children, their careers... God gives us all blessings to enjoy. I enjoy food but I have to keep it in line so I do not become overweight. I enjoy my kids but I cannot put them above my worship for God. I think alcohol is the same when we enjoy the gift more than we do the One who gave it to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHKriska Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? When I was a lot younger I was addicted to alcohol and I recall this passage as a crutch. I thought to myself, "Oh good, people in the bible drank wine. It must be okay." However, as a miraculously recovered alcoholic, I see wine as a visual aide to God's many messages about life and salvation. While I take wine during communion, I know that I have to be careful. Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? Nothing wrong with drinking wine. Some people can have a glass and that's it. Others like me, a glass is not enough. Whether it's chemical makeup or an illness, I just know that one glass will never be enough to feed that addiction. How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God’s good gifts? Through daily and sometimes hourly prayer I go through life to avoid becoming addicted to one thing or another: drugs, alcohol, work, gambling, etc. God has saved me many many times throughout my life and He has made me content in His presence. He makes me to understand that He is all I need. Thank you, Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiKosum Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God’s good gifts? Alcoholics are quick to point out that drinking is not an issue and that even Jesus turned water into more wine, which meant that He condoned drinking. Drinking alcohol is not wrong but drunkenness is "Wine is a mocker, intoxicating drink arouses brawling and whoever is led astray by it is not wise." (Proverbs 20:1) Moderation is the key and so is listening to the small still voice telling us "it is time to stop". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioned Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God’s good gifts? Alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle because they want to justify why they indulge in this addiction. It is okay to drink a glass of wine but when drinking to excess and you become drunk, it is a sin. you can avoid excesses and still enjoy God's good gifts by using them in moderation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilter Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 People who drink in excess uses this to tell themselves and others that drinking is fine. They say Jesus drink so it is ok. Drunkenness is never right you do things you normally would not do. It takes away needs for you family and causes problems with friends and family. People look everywhere but to God for excitement and meaning and pleasures just as the wine Jesus made was the best life in Him is better than life on our own. Praise the Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Jerry Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I think that alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle because it seems to them to justify why they are drunk all the time. Jesus turned the water into wine therefore it must by ok to drunk. There is nothing wrong with drinking wine as long as it is done in moderation. But to be drunk is against the biblical principles especially Proverbs. We know how much we can drink without getting drunk therefore we can avoid excesses and still enjoy God’s good gift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grace2free Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Alcoholics are using this to justify that it is okay to be a binge drinker. Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? Drunkenness. Drinking wine is not just a social drink but is a part of a meal that you should not have to much. Anything that is too much is bad. How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God's good gifts? There must be a gauge, like one glass is good and two glasses is more than enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royk Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 Q3. (John 2:6-10) Why do you think alcoholics are quick to point out this miracle? Which is wrong: drinking wine or drunkenness? How can we avoid excesses and still enjoy God's good gifts? The bible clearly states that wine an gladden and warm the heart, e.g. help people loosen up a bit. But there are those who never drink and keep with others who also never drink, those who drink a little, and those who drink compulsively. For those who have no need to drink, to loosen up, this is a blessing, e.g. in my wife's Hispanic family. Once we have walked in some one else's shoes, only then can we understand how much if any they might feel a need to drink any wine at all. If we are blessed to be trained in youth or even in maturity, to notice any excessive compulsive defects in our way of being, we must thank God for this wisdom, and the knowledge that HE can heal anything about us if we let go, and let Him do it. For humans when Jesus is not seeming to be present at all times, such healing can take a long time. Paul says "...capture every thought..." We pray and ask for the wisdom to capture every thought to His glory, and capture them all from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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