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Q2. Righteous Judges


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  • 4 weeks later...

(John 8:3-8) Why did Jesus insist on unbiased, righteous witnesses casting the first stone? Why is verse 7 so often misused? Does Jesus require sinlessness of those called on to judge? What does he require? How does this compare with Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 7:1-5? 

 

By insisting on unbiased and righteous witnesses, Jesus was referring to witnesses who did not have any personal interest in the case. Even in modern courts, in cases of a conflict of interest, judges are required to recuse themselves.

 

Verse 7 is often misused, especially the liberals, to invalidate anyone from judging sin as wrong. 

 

Jesus does not require sinlessness as a requirement of those called to judge. Instead, they should be impartial and motivated by justice instead of personal interest.

 

This verse is rather similar to that in Matthew 7:5 - "Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."

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Jesus insisted on unbiased, righteous witnesses to cast the first stone because that was detailed in the very Law these religious enemies were trying to use against the woman.  The actual witnesses were to throw the first stones of judgment.  But I also think Jesus insisted on this because there were no unbiased, righteous witnesses.   These religious men had probably paid someone to find them a compromised woman, and weren’t eye-witnesses at all.  Or maybe one of them had even lured her into the situation, willing to violate God's moral law for a supposed "higher good".  They had an agenda that had nothing personal to do with the accused woman, and Jesus’ insistence that an eye-witness step forward unveiled their own hypocrisy to the Law. 

 

Verse 7 truly is often misused to say that no one has the right to judge anything!  But Jesus certainly doesn’t require the complete purity and sinless state of those called on to judge because there is no such person.  We are to seek the righteousness of God in our own lives and then do our best to rightly follow His discernment in making judgments.  But what I’ve read is that His comment in verse 7 was likely directed toward the scandal of adultery that was rampant in that era, apparently even within the religious leadership (cf. Romans 2:22; Matt. 12:39).  With that one statement, He would have been addressing their hypocrisy at hiding personal sin of the same nature while condemning someone else because of it.  This seems completely plausible in light of Jesus' strong rebuke of hypocrisy in Matthew 7:1-5 where He warned that those who judge others invite their own judgment according to the same standards.  And there’s also the quiet defeated departures of the accusers who had nothing more to say (although I’m certain they were absolutely fuming!).  Jesus was not there to condemn the woman, and none of those religious leaders could.  What a lesson to beware of self-righteous tirades against others!

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Q2. (John 8:3-8) Why did Jesus insist on unbiased, righteous witnesses casting the first stone? Why is verse 7 so often misused? Does Jesus require sinlessness of those called on to judge? What does he require? How does this compare with Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 7:1-5?

 

Because it was so much a set up. The accusers were being hypocrites, because they knew that these accusations were spurious and false, all because they wanted to entrap Jesus. Jesus does not require those called to judge to be sinlessness, but he required a right attitude and holness, not self righteousness (John 7:24).

 

I have trouble getting my head around judging, when I read Matt 7:1-5. However I think what jesus is saying in John 8 is similar to his teaching in Matt 7:2-5

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 (John 8:3-8) Why did Jesus insist on unbiased, righteous witnesses casting the first stone?

1.  I think that Jesus insisted on unbiased, righteous witnesses to cast the first stone because he knew that there was none.  By saying a sinless person could throw the first stone highlighted the importance of compassion and forgiveness.  Are we quick to pass judgment as if we never sinned?  Also, his request would be in line with the Law of Moses.

  • It upheld the Law of Moses, (2) it required the accusers to take action to carry out the law, (3) it pointed to their culpability as prejudiced, evil witnesses in this case, and (4) it may have prevented a "lynching" in this woman's case.

Why is verse 7 so often misused?

2.  People use it invalidate anyone from judging any sin as wrong.

 

Does Jesus require sinlessness of those called on to judge? What does he require? How does this compare with Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 7:1-5?          

3.  No, but what he does required is we make sure our own house in order before we judge others.  We are to examine our own lives and get rid of anything that is not pleasing to God.  When we do that, then we are able to help our brothers and sisters. 

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Q2. (John 8:3-8) Why did Jesus insist on unbiased, righteous witnesses casting the first stone?

I do not believe Jesus was insisting on an unbiased, righteous person to cast the first stone, because there are none, I do believe Jesus was interested in breaking through their head knowledge in order to touch their soul, these men may have been an enemy of Christ, however, the Messiah was not their enemy, for he came to reach the heart of all men; I believe those who consider themselves to be a good person, and may even have much head knowledge are often the hardest to reach, but nothing is impossible with God, as we see Jesus writing on the ground, allowing a time of silence for it to touch these men, preparing them for when he stood up and asked, “Who among you are ready to through the first stone” – and we see these men whose hearts were broken, one by one they left, this would not have been an easy thing for these men to have done, for self pride is a difficult thing to break through, but God’s word is powerful.

 

Q3. How does this compare with Jesus' teaching in Matthew 7:1-5?

Judge not that you be not judged follows after God’s word for us to “Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness” - God is not saying a disciple is “never” to judge, but instead they are to avoid having the “spirit” of “criticism” and “fault-finding” for that spirit often leads to the spirit of “PRIDE” and the inability of seeing the log in one’s own eye. (Oh to see ourselves as others see us)

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Q2. (John 8:3-8) Why did Jesus insist on unbiased, righteous witnesses casting the first stone?

 

Jesus obviously knew this was a set up....and that there were no "unbiased, righteous witnesses."

 

Why is verse 7 so often misused?

 

Liberal folks who resent any scrutiny or naming of anything "sin", misuse this verse to hide behind,

 

Does Jesus require sinlessness of those called on to judge?

 

No, because there is no such "animal".

 

What does he require?

 

An unbiased individual who has nothing to gain personally from the position.

 

How does this compare with Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 7:1-5?

 

He said in Mt 7,  to judge not until you've removed the sin from our own life which keeps us from seeing another's sin dispassionately.

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Q2. (John 8:3-8) Why did Jesus insist on unbiased, righteous witnesses casting the first stone? Why is verse 7 so often misused? Does Jesus require sinlessness of those called on to judge? What does he require? How does this compare with Jesus' teaching in Matthew 7:1-5?

 

Jesus knew that the "witnesses" were sinners and couldn't lie in public again a 2nd time. Jesus suggest that some one perfect would carry out the sentence since no one there would be able to do it. Besides, the evil people were not accurately quoting the law of the old testament.

 

We are all sinners and shold not follow the crowd to execute or punish someone accused in a mob-law-situation.

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Q2. (John 8:3-8) Why did Jesus insist on unbiased, righteous witnesses casting the first stone? Why is verse 7 so often misused? Does Jesus require sinlessness of those called on to judge? What does he require? How does this compare with Jesus' teaching in Matthew 7:1-5?
 

He insisted on unbiased, righteous witnesses to cast the first stone beacuse that was in line with the provision of the Jewish law.

 

The text in John 8:7 is often misused because it is interpreted to mean anyone who has not sin. It however means any one (a judge) without an unbiased intrest in the case.

 

No, Jesus does not requre sinlessness in those required to judge but that they should not have any bias intrest.

 

This is like Jesus teaching in Matthew 7:1-5 that requires one to remove his own sin before he can correct someone else.

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Q2. (John 8:3-8) Why did Jesus insist on unbiased, righteous witnesses casting the first stone? Why is verse 7 so often misused? Does Jesus require sinlessness of those called on to judge? What does he require? How does this compare with Jesus' teaching in Matthew 7:1-5?

 

There is no justice in bias.  Only favoritism and wanting your way to be said right regardless of the truth.  Deut. 17:7 said the witnesses must cast the first stone.  The witnesses are to be unbiased so should be ready to carry out the sentence.  This puts the weight on the witnesses to be telling the truth or they will be quilty of murder and maybe not on this earth will it be found out but they will one day stand before a just and holy God and answer for their hypocrisy.  I believe it takes a humble man to act fairly in this because he knows he himself is a sinner.

It seems to me this answer on Jesus part puts the words in Matthew 7:1-5 into action.

 

God Bless!

Jen

Numbers 6:24-26

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Q2. (John 8:3-8) Why did Jesus insist on unbiased, righteous witnesses casting the first stone? Why is verse 7 so often misused? Does Jesus require sinlessness of those called on to judge? What does he require? How does this compare with Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 7:1-5?

Jesus wanted unbiased and a righteous witness to cast the first stone. He knew the rulers were out to trap him. Those that were witness to this sinful act had evil intentions on their mind not justice.

Verse 7 is often misquoted because liberals will use this verse to keep anyone from judging any sin as wrong.

Jesus does not require a person who is called to judge others to be sinless.

What Jesus does require of those who are called to judge, is that they be unbiased, fair and have at least three witnesses before a person can be condemned.

The difference between Jn 7:1-8 and Matt. 7:1-8 is that here Jesus tells them by what standard they judge, it will be used against them when they are judged.    

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Q2. (John 8:3-8) 

Why did Jesus insist on unbiased, righteous witnesses casting the first stone? 

Why is verse 7 so often misused? 

Does Jesus require sinlessness of those called on to judge? 

What does He require? 

How does this compare with Jesus' teaching in Matthew 7:1-5?

Jesus knew that this was a setup orchestrated to discredit Him. Witnesses to this sin had to, according to the Law of Moses, initiate the stoning (Deuteronomy 17:7). So, He gave them His permission for the stoning to begin, but, in this case, only by those who were not part of the conspiracy to trap Him. Verse 7 is often used to excuse sin. The attitude is that we are free from blame because everyone else has done things that are wrong. However, this verse does not excuse sin, rather, it condemns those who are guilty even though they have never been caught. Jesus requires that the penalty of the law should be carried out. He is not talking about the sinlessness of those called to judge, but He is highlighting the importance of compassion and forgiveness. There is no one without sin: “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (Romans 3:23). When others are caught in sin, we are quick to pass judgment. Jesus’ teachings in Matthew 7:1-5 is in line with our passage of Scripture. Those who wish to judge others should be without sin themselves. In this part of Scripture, we again see an example of Jesus’ wisdom: “in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge (Colossians 2:3). 

 

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1. This is a statement about judging others. Because he upheld the legal penalty for adultery, which is stoning Jesus could not be accused of being against the law. With saying that only a sinless person could throw the first stone He was showing the importance of compassion and forgiveness.

2. I think a lot of people hide behind this. If they are called out on their sins this verse is often used.

3.No because there is no such person we are all sinners saved by grace. We need to have love and forgiveness in our heart and leave the judging to our Holy Father Jesus Christ.

4. These scriptures goes right along  with John teaching. In Matthew Jesus told us to examine our own motives and conducts instead of judging others. 

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In Matthew 7: 1-5 Jesus taught that we should remove the plank from our own eyes before attempting to remove the speck in someone else’s.  Verse 7 is misused to justify a completely non-judgemental approach under any circumstances.  My understanding is that we are in error if we do not try to ‘save people from themselves’ by pointing out their faults.  I base this on Ezekiel 3: 16-21 when God said he would blame the prophet if he did not attempt to help others to avoid sin.  It is how we do it that is key.  Jesus’s injunction elsewhere to correct one’s brother privately and then take graduated steps if this is ineffectual, until things reach a point where he is to be treated like a ‘tax collector’.  Finger pointing in a loud and judgemental fashion is both unlikely to succeed and also very cruel.  None of us is sinless, so we can only do our best.

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Jesus in a sense reminded the accusers of the woman that they, according mosaic law, were required to throw the first stone. I expect the original intent of this requirement was to impress upon accusers the immense responsibility of throwing the first stone required a clean conscience as to their motives.   

Verse 7 does seem to imply that no one can judge or punish anyone for what ever if they themselves are without sin. Yet the scriptures do give the civil authorities that responsibility. So the explanation that Jesus was insisting on impartiality of the accusers makes sense. He is not insisting on perfection but rather a humble, self examining attitude. This same attitude is what Mt, 7 is seeking.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Q2. (John 8:3-8)

Why did Jesus insist on unbiased, righteous witnesses casting the first stone?

But the witnesses in this particular case weren't interested in justice being done, but rather in entrapping Jesus. Thus they were tainted witnesses who had an interest in the outcome of the case -- and everyone knew it. They weren't without sin!

 

Why is verse 7 so often misused?

There are people who are blood hungry. They will used this opportunity to hurt and kill a human.

Throw the first stone is a reference to a requirement in the Law of Moses that witnesses be the first to put a person to death.

"You [who heard his blasphemy] must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13:9)

 

Does Jesus require sinlessness of those called on to judge?

YES, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." (8:7)

 

What does he require?

He that is without sin

 

How does this compare with Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 7:1-5?

We should not be rash in our judgement,

This is much like Jesus' teaching in the Sermon on the Mount. Judge not, until you have removed the sin from your life that keeps you from seeing another's sin clearly and dispassionately (Matthew 7:1-5).

 

Matthew 7:1-5 (KJV)
1  Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2  For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3  And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4  Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5  Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Q2. (John 8:3-8) Why did Jesus insist on unbiased, righteous witnesses casting the first stone? Why is verse 7 so often misused? Does Jesus require sinlessness of those called on to judge? What does he require? How does this compare with Jesus' teaching in Matthew 7:1-5?

This is a significant statement about judging others. Because Jesus upheld the legal penalty for adultery, stoning, he could not be accused of being against the law.

But by saying that only a sinless person could throw the first stone, he highlighted the importance of compassion and forgiveness.

 

When others are caught in sin, are you quick to pass judgment? To do so is to act as though you have never sinned. It is God’s role to judge, not us. Our role is to show forgiveness and compassion.

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  • 2 months later...

Jesus knew the hearts of men. He also knew that there were no righteous witnesses to this act. I feel that verse 7 of this lesson makes the guilty feel that other people do wrong things so they should not be judged at all. Their actions mean nothing. I do not believe Jesus is looking for a person with no sin in this case. He is looking for someone who can honestly say that this woman is guilty. He is looking for one true witness. Jesus told us in Matthew 7:1-5 that we need to view ourselves before we could fairly judge others. We needed to see if we had an ulterior motive for pointing our finger at someone else. We need to make sure that we are judging others fairly and for the right reasons.

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  • 1 month later...

Q2. (John 8:3-8) Why did Jesus insist on unbiased, righteous witnesses casting the first stone?  Why is verse 7 so often misused? Does Jesus require sinlessness of those called on to judge? What does he require? How does this compare with Jesus' teaching in Matthew 7:1-5?

 

By saying what He did, He put them on the same moral plane as the woman they were judging. He simply pointed out that we have all sinned and once they recognized that for what it is they would have to eliminate the self-righteousness from their hearts and judge her fairly.  Jesus rightly pointed out that only those who had no self-interest in the outcome could justly execute a death sentence upon her.

 

A lot of Christian folk mistakenly take this verse to mean that Jesus is saying that we should never judge anyone, anytime, for any reason.  In fact, that kind of attitude ultimately leads to an almost a complete acceptance of anything and everything and that’s absolutely NOT what He’s teaching here.  In reality, He’s confronting her accusers for not fully implementing the provisions of the law.  In reality He’s simply pointing out and upholding the strictest requirements of Mosaic Law.  By doing so He’s calling attention to the fact that her accusers were misusing her to get to Him so they themselves were themselves in violation.  Deuteronomy 17:7 says that the witnesses were required to cast the first stone so He was interpreting the law in its strictest sense.  In no way does he even remotely suggest that the woman’s sin should be glossed over or should be forgiven without any payment of the penalty it deserved.  In fact, it would be Jesus himself who would pay the penalty not only for her sin but for the sins of her accusers and all mankind as well.

 

No, Jesus is not saying that you have to be sinless, He’s saying that you have to set aside discrimination and moral judgment.  We first have to recognize our own sin; if absolute sinlessness were required we wouldn’t be able to speak out about any evil.

 

Jesus says exactly the same thing in Matthew when He said, For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.

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Q2. (John 8:3-8) Why did Jesus insist on unbiased, righteous witnesses casting the first stone?  Why is verse 7 so often misused? Does Jesus require sinlessness of those called on to judge? What does he require? How does this compare with Jesus' teaching in Matthew 7:1-5?

 

By saying what He did, He put them on the same moral plane as the woman they were judging. He simply pointed out that we have all sinned and once they recognized that for what it is they would have to eliminate the self-righteousness from their hearts and judge her fairly.  Jesus rightly pointed out that only those who had no self-interest in the outcome could justly execute a death sentence upon her.

 

A lot of Christian folk mistakenly take this verse to mean that Jesus is saying that we should never judge anyone, anytime, for any reason.  In fact, that kind of attitude ultimately leads to an almost a complete acceptance of anything and everything and that’s absolutely NOT what He’s teaching here.  In reality, He’s confronting her accusers for not fully implementing the provisions of the law.  In reality He’s simply pointing out and upholding the strictest requirements of Mosaic Law.  By doing so He’s calling attention to the fact that her accusers were misusing her to get to Him so they themselves were themselves in violation.  Deuteronomy 17:7 says that the witnesses were required to cast the first stone so He was interpreting the law in its strictest sense.  In no way does he even remotely suggest that the woman’s sin should be glossed over or should be forgiven without any payment of the penalty it deserved.  In fact, it would be Jesus himself who would pay the penalty not only for her sin but for the sins of her accusers and all mankind as well.

 

No, Jesus is not saying that you have to be sinless, He’s saying that you have to set aside discrimination and moral judgment.  We first have to recognize our own sin; if absolute sinlessness were required we wouldn’t be able to speak out about any evil.

 

Jesus says exactly the same thing in Matthew when He said, For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.

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  • 2 years later...

The reason that Jesus insisted on an unbiased, righteous witness to cast the first stone was because it was the Law of Moses. Jesus knew that the accusers were trying to trap him and they didn’t want to take it so far as to murder the woman. Verse 7 us misused because they don’t want anybody to judge the guilty. Jesus does not require sinlessness of those called on to judge otherwise there would be no judges. He requires them to be honest. This lines up perfectly Matthew because we are not to judge the moral of the other person but if a person commits a crime we are to judge that.

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  • 7 months later...

Q2. (John 8:3-8) Why did Jesus insist on unbiased, righteous witnesses casting the first stone? Why is verse 7 so often misused? Does Jesus require sinlessness of those called on to judge? What does he require? How does this compare with Jesus' teaching in Matthew 7:1-5? The reason He said that is because the law stated that two witnesses had to be there for any stoning to stand and to be officially done. I believe it is misused because they misunderstand the true meaning of the verse and don't realize that there is more behind it than meets the eye. I believe he is saying those who are witnesses, not judges must be sinless.  This lines up well with Matthew because we are not to judge or condemn the other person for their actions or morals for that is not our job. 

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  • 5 months later...

Jesus was teaching that they would not be judged by the law of Moses any more.  That each person will be judged by God alone for there sins.  Man is not the judge of man but God is the judge of all.  Jesus was teaching them that they also were sinners and had not the right to judge anyone .  Jesus was teaching them that they too were to repent from their sins and ask for forgiveness and not to continue living in sin.   Again I say,  Jesus came to fulfil the law of Moses.  He is directing and teaching a new gospel, a new law.  One that requires belief in Him and obedience to the word , the gospel He is now teaching.  The Jews were rejecting Him and the word of God.  The same God they claimed to love and honor and who gave the law to Moses. Jesus knew that there was no one who is sinless.. everyone there sinned. He who is without sin cast the first stone... We all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.....There is none perfect but God.  Jesus is teaching forgiveness to all for all who choose and ask for forgiveness and walk and live a live free from sin.

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  • 2 years later...

The Greek word is  'anamartetos'.   To be free from irregular desires which would might lead to such sins.  Christ calls for inward holiness and freedom from all irregular propensities.  Christ is calling for personal chasity as the only moral condition to execute the ancient law of stoning.  Christ knew that had foul hearts and false zeal.

The issue here--did these accusers morally competent to condemn to immediate death and carry the verdict to execution.  Truly, Christ was giving a tremendous summons from on high; the hypocrisy of the accusers was so evident.

Very sad that people in the church use this narrative to allow and condone sin.   The Epistles of St Paul are replete with admonitions and judgements.   A man of God must judge and call out sin; he must preach the Word of God in season and out of season. 

Christ is not stating that only the sinless can condemn or pronounce a verdict; Christ is referring to execution of the Mosaic edict of stoning. Anamartetos is referring to being free from the desires which could lead to actual  commission of such sins.

Christ requires absence of from desires of the sarx- the flesh that would lead to the sin of adultery.   Christ is pointing out hypocrisy in Matthew 7:1-5.   The call to holiness is a very serious call.   To live a sanctified life is of utmost importance.   Christ is not condemning righteous judging; we are rational human beings.   It is hypocrisy that Christ cannot tolerate.

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  • 9 months later...

Q2. (John 8:3-8)

Why did Jesus insist on unbiased, righteous witnesses casting the first stone?

Why is verse 7 so often misused?  Could the sin in your/my life also actually condemn us is that why we use the verse not to judge and steer clear of pointing out adultery or whatever sin there is that is standing out in the one 'not to be judged'.  

Does Jesus require sinlessness of those called on to judge?

What does He require?  Fairness and repentance and if at all possible restoration for the person into fellowship.

How does this compare with Jesus' teaching in Matthew 7:1-5?

The fact that they only brought the woman and put the case before Him was a bit weird. it takes two not just one person to commit the act of adultery. In Lev 20:10 and in Deut 22:22 it states that both are to die. Was there really a witness to the act or was it just assumed?  Jesus called him who was without sin (could it be the same kind or a similar sin) to be the one to throw the first stone.  I guess it is also always hardest to throw the first stone. Jesus requires a just judging . Not just a judging because of crowd-manipulation. In Matthew 7 we are called upon to look at ourselves first before passing judgement on the next person. By not answering the question directly Jesus calmed the situation and made the accusers look on themselves before passing judgement. 

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