JesusWalk Bible Study Forum: Q3. Identifying with the Sins of the People - JesusWalk Bible Study Forum

Q3. (9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn't commit them. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people?

I appreciate Pastor Ralph's explanation that "Daniel is part of a sinful nation in the same way that a member of the human race bears guilt because of Adam's sin". Daniel took into his own heart the burden and responsibility for the sins of his nation in order to truly and effectively intercede for them. His intercession had to cost him a lot in emotional and spiritual terms as he deeply related to their wickedness that deserved God's justice and their utter need for God's mercy for redemption.

This immediately made me think of Christ's intercession for us. He was completely innocent of sin, but took on the burden and responsibility for ours in order to intercede for them. Of course, (hallelujah!), Christ completely atoned for our sins Himself, which Daniel could not do. But His example of sacrificial intercession is the ultimate model for us.

What difference might it make if just the people doing this Bible study took on such a burden for the sins of our own nation(s) and committed ourselves to such sacrificial intercession? I know America totally deserves God's judgment but we desperately need His glorious and abundant mercy!! I think the bottom-line question is "Do we genuinely care?" Are our hearts broken about the sins of our people? Are we willing to hurt and suffer in order to bear the burden for them?

In order to intercede for the sins of the people, we must first take their sins upon ourselves.

Yahshua took the sins of the world upon himself in order to save the world.

When I read this about Daniel and his deep feeling for his people and commits himself to intercede for their salvation from sin, I can identify closely to the feeling where I am in regards to my own immediate family and children....especially my two sons. I have professed to being a believer most of my life, and have not lived as closely to the Lord as I could have or should have, BUT, part of it was due to lack of knowledge or teaching of my responsibilities as a Mother to teach my sons about the Lord...I left it to the church to do this....which failed. So now when I pray, as an elderly mother for her sons, who are still disobedient and do not seek the Lord that I know of, I feel desperately in need of being able to pray like Daniel did for God's people. Though I am righteous now, because of Jesus, I am not sure I am righteous enough to be seen as righteous in anyone's eyes. Nevertheless I MUST pray and intercede for the souls of my sons and family for I seem to be the only one left to do so. I am praying that God will give me the Wisdom and courage and strength to do this effectively before I die, for with all my heart I desire their Salvation Gift from the Lord my God to be in their possession. The Passion of Christ and Daniel and others is a blessed example for us to follow, if we will do so.

Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people?
In Norman Grubb's book Intercessor about Rees Howells, Rees Howells is praying and asking God for healing for a women that has TB. After much time in prayer the Lord asks Rees if he is willing to take the TB in is own body so the women can be healed he is taken back by the request. Rees spent the night in prayer and in the morning he said to the Lord he is willing to be given the TB so the women can be healed. The Lord heals the woman and he gets the symptoms of TB but dose not get the sickness. He asks the Lord why this happened the Lord says to him that he wanted to know if he was really serious about his request for healing for the women. This happen again and again in his life but Rees Howells life was one of answered prayer.
I think if you want to be a prayer intercessor you must be willing to take on the sins or the sickness of the person or persons you are praying for. After I came to this realization my prayer life has changed. If I am ask to pray for someone or something I now may say no because I can only pray for one or two things at a time. Prayer intersection takes time and concentration.


How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people?

He took the sins of the world on his shoulders and took those sins and nailed them to the cross. This cost him his life. He did this for us before anyone ever asked for forgiveness of his or her sins.

Daniel had to take on the sins of the nation personally. Even though he was righteous, he was praying for a sinful nation that he was part of. It was so similar to Jesus, because Jesus had to be born a human to become part of the "nation" that sinned. Then, He took all of our sins upon himself, to save the rest of us.

Q3. (9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn't commitment them. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people?

I believe that Daniel is righteous - but his love for Israel made him willingi to take on the sins of the nation - he was willing to sacrifice in order to intercede on their behalf. God does not require the sacrifice to atone, but the sacrifice of taking on their sins/illness/request - - shows God where our heart truly is in the request - are we serious about it or doing it for show. Will God require it of us - no - but if we are willing then it means we are truly interceding for someone.


As for comparing to Jesus - he took the sins for all to the cross - He bore them and nailed the condemnation for those sins as He sacrificed for all. He died knowing our needs - and offered us complete deliverence from condemnation and on His resurrection - an everlasting life. Hallelujah!

Q3. Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his peope?
Daniel realizes that he must pray on behalf of the nation of Israel, not just a personal prayer, but as an intercessor for all the people, for every sin committed, a baring of the soul of Israel.

He didn't commit them. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for His people?
The comparison is much the same. Daniel sought forgiveness for the nation of Israel. A people who were called God's chosen ones. Jesus, on the other hand, sought forgiveness for the soul of every individual person on the earth. To given them a chance to obtain Salvation. Jesus sought forgiveness for all of us - - to the death.

Q3. (9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn't commitment them. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people?

David took upon himself the sins of the nation because of the love of his people. He owned up to the sins of the nation. Tho Daniel was not sinless like Jueus, Jesus offerd himself up for our sins. He bore the punishment for what we deserved.

Q3. (9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people?
He is doing intercessory prayer so he takes on the sins of the people as did Jesus with us. He is not guilty of the sins but his people are and he loves them enough to intercede for them.

He didn't commitment them. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people?

They both took on the sins of the people that did not belong to them but to all those that they are praying for. Thank you Jesus if he had not done this we would not be able to be in heaven with him. We would not be joint heirs with Jesus we would still be sin in the eyes of the Lord God Almighty. We are so blessed to be loved so much and so was those in the days of Daniel for he did not play a game of I did not do it they did and let it go on without prayers. Praise the name of our Lord Jesus who died a death he did not deserve but he did it for each one of us. If only one would except him and be saved he still would have went to the cross. Thank you Jesus for loving us so much.

Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn't commitment them. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people?

that's right he didn't committ the sins himself, yet he wants all of his people to be saved so he takes on thier sins and approches GOD with them asking for forgiveness. Jesus did the same thing only he had to physically be trialed for the entire world to be forgiven.

Q3. (9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? Daniel did not commit the sins, how ever he was interceding on behalf of his people and pleaded to God for the forgiveness of his people, for their sins.

He didn't commitment them. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people? Jesus sought the ultimate sacrifice for the people, so that mankind might be saved by offering his own life. He died on the cross and rose again in fullfillment of the scriptures.

Daniel like all humans was born of sin, where as Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit without sin.

Amen

Daniel was seeking mercy for a nation that he was a part of, they violated the law of Moses, and the the warnings that God had given to the prophets. Daniel did not commit any of the sins but he appealed to God's mercies on their behalf, the same as Jesus paid a debt for sins that he did not commit but he appealed to the mercies of God for the sins of the world.
Daniel appeal to God for a nation.

I think by identifying himself with the sins of his people, even though he himself did not commit these sins, he was showing God that he is acknowledging the sins of his "fathers", and praying for mercy. I also think that he is not trying to portray himself as rightous, but as someone who is not perfect.

Jesus loved his people so much that he" became sin " so that we would be forgiven by God.

Q3. (9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people?
DANIEL BEING A RIGHTEOUS MAN KNEW THAT IN ORDER TO PRAY FOR INTERCESSION HE HAD TO TAKE ON THE SINS OF THE NATION. HE HAD TO INCLUDE HIMSELF IN THOSE SINS EVEN THOUGH HE WAS A RIGHTEOUS MAN.

He didn't commitment them.
HE HAD TO TAKE OWNERSHIP OF THE SIN IN ORDER TO INTERCEDE. NO MAN IS SINLESS. WE HAVE ALL SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. EVERYONE EXCEPT FOR JESUS. SO HE CAN NOT SAY THAT HE IS ABOVE SINNING. WE ALL BEAR THE GUILT BECAUSE OF THE SINS OF ADAM.

How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people?
IT MEANS THAT INTERCESSORY IS COSTLY. LOOK AT THE PRICE JESUS PAID TO SAVE US FROM SIN. I DON'T THINK IT COMPARES WITH THE SACRAFICE THAT JESUS MADE BUT IT IS A VERY GOOD BEGINNING FOR A HUMAN WHO KNOWS THAT HE IS NOT WITHOUT SIN AND CAN HUMBLE HIMSELF BEFORE GOD FOR HIS SINS AND THE SINS OF HIS NATION.

Daniel knew that the people didn't qualify for mercy under the covenant of love that God had made with Israel. Daniel recognized the greatness and holiness of God and knew he had to be honest and place himself in the midst of the whole people and confess their sins as his own because of his righteousness.
Many years later, Jesus took on the sins of the world in order to save it, but the way it was done was very different, in that Jesus gave His life on the Cross to save the world. He gave HIS LIFE for our redemption. What an intercessor HE is sitting at the right hand of God for us sinners!!!!!!!!!

Q3. (9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn't commitment them. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people?

I think it was important that Daniel didn't "flaunt" his righteousness when he interceded for Israel. His identification of himself with the sins of the people took humility and a very acute awareness of God's holiness and righteousness, as well as His sense of justice. We must be very careful when approaching Almighty God that we don't make presumptions about being righteous. Humility is of utmost importance. Though Daniel was a righteous man, he probably commited sins also. Jesus, on the other hand, didn't sin, though He took the sins of the world upon Himself, thus obtaining forgiveness for all humanity.

Daniel, is a true intercessor. Daniel has completely indentified himself with the sins of his people. He has taken ownership of their sins in order that God may hear and save. This model of prayer means that we can't outside and pray, we've got to get dirty. Or align ourselves with the guilty. It becomes necessary for Daniel to do this because of the nature of intercession. "Inter" to come into, means to become deeply involved with.

Though he didn't commit these trangressions himself he was of the same people that commited them. He placed himself right alongside of them. It was not them any more but "us" or "we". He didn't take on their sins, but as a intercessor indentified himself with them in their sins.

Q3. (9:5) Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people? He didn't commitment them. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people?

Since Daniel is such a righteous man in his generation, why does he identify himself with the sins of his people?

He had a heart that loved the people inspite of their sins. He desired to intercede for them. He wanted to see them turn from their sins.

He didn't commitment them. How does this compare to how Jesus sought forgiveness for his people?

In the same way Jesus loved and cared about us enough to intercede for us that we might turn from our sins and be restored to a right relationship with him.

The people on this earth are intended to be the bride of Chist - not as individuals but as a whole. Although God loves us individually, and wants everyone of us to LIVE in the heavenlies, we are "The body of Christ" and have responsibility to act as part of that body. Daniel is acting as part of God's chosen people. He identifies with them. God's plan is not just for him alone (in fact he himself never made it back to Israel) but for the Jewish nation. Daniel is for his people, as Abraham was for Lot in his intercession. It is true, God can, in the end, save only the righteous (in His eyes) individuals, but we are not the judges of that, and it is not His willthat any should perish, and we do have responsibility in that regard.

Jesus came to receive His bride, which is why He was pierced in His side at the crucifixion. His bride is the righteous church. He came to sacrifice himself in intercession for His bride, as did Daniel for Israel to a lesser extent (yet the picture is there). Jesus' bride is brown but beautiful (Song of songs). She loves Him and spends all her days preparing to greet Him when He comes. How blessed are we to know these things! How far will we go to prepare the vineyard for His coming? How determined are we to glorify Him?