Q2. Relationship of Sin to the Law

[Antwan]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

I believe that what is being said is that sin has been present in man ever since Adam and Eve disobeyed God; it became apart of our nature; the law was given to make us aware of our sin and to let us see how far we have fallen from the state of blamelessness that man once had with God. Trepass increases because the more we try to do right, or live by the law, the more we become aware of the sin that is in us. So, again, the law is meant to show us our sinfulness ( and our inability to do right in and of ourselves); the law used in the right way should make us depend on God for our righteousness and salvation, and not try to work for it.

[jon burke]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

http://www.joyfulheart.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=797

[Marloes]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Yes, there was sin (5:13a).

The law just makes sin visible so it can be counted (5:13b).

Now sin can be counted, the sin-counter shows the 'trespass increase' (5:20).

[Paul G]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

ANS - There was sin before the law, but the law put definition to what sin was, and made it more pronounced. Once the law came we knew what God meant by sin. It became very real to us.

Can there be sin without law?

ANS - Yes. Sin became reality when Adam and Eve first sinned.

[Foofee's Nana]

What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Yes, there was sin even before law...perhaps it was not recognized as sin but it was there with the full penalty of death. To incease the trespass means ( I think) that we see the sin more fully for whatt it is, and know the results of it. By making sin more cvisible, it indeed makes the gift of Christ an awesome and magnificent one.

[Foofee's Nana]

What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Yes, there was sin even before law...perhaps it was not recognized as sin but it was there with the full penalty of death. To incease the trespass means ( I think) that we see the sin more fully for whatt it is, and know the results of it. By making sin more cvisible, it indeed makes the gift of Christ an awesome and magnificent one.

[Help Me Understand :-)]

(Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

The first verse, Romans 5:13, this just makes sense to me. How can there be sin if there isnt a law identifying what you have done to go against GOD's will. However, I am struggling to wrap my brain around the meaning of the "trespass increase" portion of the question.

Wow, I just got it. The law helps identify all of the different ways that we sin against GOD, which in turn would cause trespass to increase.

[Old Jerry]

I think that Paul is saying in these verses that there has always been sin. We just couldn

[wifee]

a)Yes sin can be there without the law. Sin was their from time of Adam& Eve

[Ramon]

Answer: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law).-Romans 5:13

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound-Romans 5:20

It is clear in verse 13,that where there is no law,sin although it exist, is not imputed or was not accounted to man.Or in summary,NO LAW=NO SIN.

In verse 20,sin abound(trespass increase),because man is aware that there is a regulation,and he constantly breaks it.The law exposed man sinful nature,making him,knowledgeable of his sinful act(Romans 3:20- Therefore by the deeds the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin

The law made sin come alive.Itrevived the sin on the inside of us,and gave it an opportunity against us.The law didn’t strengthen us in our battle against sin,it strengthened sin in its battle against us.Look at 1 Corinthians 15:56-The sting of death is sin;and the strength of sin is the law

[Moody Grad]

Sin still exists but the law exposes the sin. By removing the law, Christ's grace covers our sins and remember our sins no more. We are not perfect but we are no longer in bondage to sin.

[rosegarden]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Sin was in the world from the time Adam through Moses, but the people did not realize it to be sin because there was yet no law but when the law came sin revived we died,the knowledge of it making it exceedingly more sinful.

[ljmnkscart]

Paul is saying that people were sinning even before the law was given. After Adam committed that first sin everyone from him until the time of Moses was sinning, even though it was not counted as sin because the Mosaic Law had not been given to Moses yet and and without any law there is no sin to break even though people were sinning because of our part or union with Adam who committed that first sin. Yes there could be sin without law as Paul said in verse 13 but it was not defined to the people until after the law was given which is what Paul says in verse 20. Paul is saying the law was given so that the people could see how sinful they were(trespass increased) and as people sinned more and more God's free gift of grace increased.

[Guitar Jim]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law?

Mankind's sin began in the Garden of Eden. That was thousands of years before God gave the Law to Moses. People still had a sense of right and wrong. God places within all people a conscience to guide them.

In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Once we study and know the Law we become more acutely aware of just how much we have sinned. In addition there may be things we do (or don't do) that we don't realize are sins until we read about them in the Law.

[Barbara A. Lee]

2.(Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses?

He is saying that because sin entered the world God had to enforce a Law, to make us accountable for our sins.

A. Can there be sin without law?

Yes, such as in the times between Adam and Moses, Death was the law.

B. In what sense does the

[erika]

Sin existed before the law, sin began when Adam was in the garden.The Law came about to enhance (to highlight sin) the trespass. As trespass increased grace reigned for the righteous .The law cannot and will not superseed God's Grace (unmeritted favor). This had to be done so that the all who have sinned can now be restored to righteouness and right standing with God.

[royk]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Basic wrong and right are not needing laws of words. It si common sense not to kill another. One should expect consequences if we steal and our caught. When the law of the land is defined, we can expect more than God's wrath for sinning, breaking the law; we can expect consequences that can cause fines or going to jail if the law breaking is big enough, and we are 'caught' in a court of law.

Payer and honest repentance are necessary, or there is no hope for our souls.

[noksidam]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? Yes because God is unchanging and what displeases Him today displeased Him before; but without the law, we would not know how holy our God is and how sinful we really are. In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present? The knowledge of our own sinfulness increases because the law exposes it. We have to realize that we can not justify ourselves before God by our good works and that we need a Savior. As we apprehend God's holiness we understand what Jesus did for us and praise Him.

[eracine]

That is a difficult question. If there was no law then how did you know you were doing wrong. I suppose when Adam was living with God he believed only what God had told him and had no reason to be lead to doing evil. That is tough one to get a hold of. The law was given so that we can see how quickly and how often we fall. The law is the goal to follow something to strive for. Do not ****. Well that is a difficult law when there is temptation all around us but we know that God wants us to stay pure so we have to set up things in our lives to keep us from temptations. So I think the law is a guideline or reminder of how God wants us to live daily. I am sure that Adam new right from wrong I would think but we can't be sure.

[iam4_1god]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

The law is good, in that it exposes our sin.

Yes, there can be sin without law, because there was no law before Moses.

Only when the law came about, could we see and understand how sinful we were.

[ross_laoshi]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

Yes! Sin (and righteousness) were both at work before the law. The conscience (Romans 2:14,15) lets us know of right and wrong and convicts us of sin. The law highlights our sin and shows us how corrupt we are and sets the standard that God requires, which is impossible for us (the natural man) to keep and shows us our great need of the savior.

[Janissi]

The Law pointed the way to sin. It was a way of showing them their sins. Yes, there is sin without the Law. It was like the Law was a mirror to their sins. I'm not sure if I'm explaining that right.

Part II of this question is a bit confusing for me, so I'll pass on that one.

[Patricia A]

Some of the following scriptures were helpful to me in thinking abot these questions:

Romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Romans:4:15 because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Certainly the law makes us conscious of sin and we believe there is no sin from which we are not justified through the death and salvation given to us by Jesus Christ.

I believe God does give us a conscience about what is right and wrong--even without a law.

These questions require much thought and prayer as we seek to give answers.

[Patricia A]

Some of the following scriptures were helpful to me in thinking abot these questions:

Romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Romans:4:15 because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Certainly the law makes us conscious of sin and we believe there is no sin from which we are not justified through the death and salvation given to us by Jesus Christ.

I believe God does give us a conscience about what is right and wrong--even without a law.

These questions require much thought and prayer as we seek to give answers.

[Joeraja]

Q2. (Romans 5:13, 20) What is Paul saying in these verses? Can there be sin without law? In what sense does the "trespass increase" (5:20) when the law is present?

There can be sin without law. Adam sinned and was guilty and this sin was inherited by the generations after Adam. There was sin but probably no conviction as there were no lines to determine who crossed or did not. But when the law started with Moses sin became obvious. The law thus exposes sin which Paul describes as sin abounds.

There is also this " laws are meant to be broken" attitude in people that makes them oppose laws and do things that are quite the opposite and thus explains the "trespass increase" because of man's sinful nature.

However this we are delivered from this sinful life through the death of Christ our Lord on the cross. The law convicts us of sin but God's love through Jesus Christ grants us grace. We are able to live a righteous life.