JesusWalk Bible Study Forum: Q2. Forgiveness and Obedience Together - JesusWalk Bible Study Forum

Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10)

It just works that way.....Acceptance of Jesus and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (being born again of the Spirit) will invariable play out in our human walk as a desire and striving to grow inthe likeness of HIM (all things become new) and you are a different person...although in practice because of the flesh we may still seemingly fail and fall, the believer will ultimately grieve that failure and strive for obedience. Forgetting what is behind.....
You wouldn't want to have it any other way ... to be born again evokes a desire in us through the working of the Spirit (conciously but in many ways subconciously) to grow in the likeness of Jesus. Jesus was obedient to the Father in all things. He was perfect in his obedience. If you wish to be like Jesus you wish to be obedient. (although I certainly do not claim to be obedient) but I am better than I was before I became alive again.

No man is obedient.... We all have gone astray............the best we can do is .just not good enough and pales before the righteousness of a perfect God. Only by the grace of God and through the finished works of Christ on the cross and our faith in him are we born again into the new life..........Thats the deal..according to scripture......I don't make the rules..............but I personally like the way it is because I am a sinner and a screw-up so it works great for a lost sheep like me!

Only Jesus lived a life of perfect obedience, the rest of us need continual forgiveness to stumble after His example without being crushed by condemnation (...there is no condemnation, to them who are in Christ Jesus).

In the visible world of cause and effect, trying to live a life of obedience without forgiveness (or presuming upon the forgiveness of God without true repentance and a desire to please Him) is like trying to breath in without breathing out... you'll suffocate just the same

It is of course by the grace (unmeritted favor) and mercy (witholding of meritted punishment) of God that we are delivered from death, as a consequence of our sin, through The Faith of Jesus Christ - but our faith (though it be the size of a mustard seed) requires "believing" (action, verb) as a response (like Peter coming to Jesus on the water) in order for "power from on high" (dunamis in the Greek) to be made manifest in the world (Jesus knocks, but we must open the door). Salvation is a gift, but living the abundant life that Christ came to make available is a continual conscience choice on our part.

Because true forgiveness is all about repenting and turning away from your sins. Obedience is the act of turning away from them, because GOD has convicted you of your mistakes, and calls you to live a godly life.

Because you're missing the whole point if you just keep asking for forgiveness without changing your ways.

Because its by GOD's grace that we become obedient. We can go our whole lifes working without a lick of faith, and we wont have any kind of relationship with GOD. On the other hand, if we have true faith, we don't have to maintain a steady stream of works to 'be in' with GOD. It would please HIM if we served HIM whole heartedly, but its not "required". All we must do is believe. The act of believing is obedience.

This is the way the Father planned it. He is molding us to become more and more like Jesus who walked in total forgiveness and obedience.

If you accept His forgiveness but refuse to obey His word, you really can't say you love Him. He has given us the ability to obey His commands through the Holy Spirit.

It takes faith in God and His grace to believe we are saved and that there is nothing that we can do with our hands that can do this. Our works, no matter how good, can not save us. Without faith it is impossible to please God.

Only Christ alone can forgive or save us. The Bible says we are saved by faith in Christ and we work out our salvation by faith. "The just shall live by his faith." Romans 1:17 Our obedience or righteous works is an expression of our faith. Obedience is evidence of our faith. Or to say it another way, our faith must be seen in our works. James said he would show his faith by his works. James 2:18 When we are saved we do not go on living our lives as before, but we are a new creation in Christ Jesus. Old things pass away and all things become new. II Cor. 5:17 "For by grace are you saved thru faith", and Paul goes on to say, "not of works lest any man should boast." In other words, we cannot save ourselves, whose perfect? Only one and He alone can save! But our Salvation is displayed by humble and Christlike obedience.

In summary, though works do not save us, there is a manifestation of works that evidences our faith. James says that without works our faith is dead! 2:17 To say that works or obedience is not important makes no sense at all. To have no maifestation of obedience is unnatural to the believer. The normal Christian life is filled with expressions of our faith to the Glory of God.

Thank God for His wonderful Salvation!

When are forgiven, we choose to follow Jesus and obey His commands. We can't choose Him as Lord and Master and not follow His commandments. He is Lord of all.

We are saved by His grace ~ it is a free gift. We obey Him because we love Him and are thankful for what He has done for us. We were once slaves to sin, but we have become bond servants to Christ. A bond servant being one who is set free, but chooses to stay and serve. Our works glorify Him. Lastly, we don't bark (work) to become a dog, we bark (work) because we are a dog. In other words, we don't work to become a Christian or to become saved, but we do good works because we are Christians.

Thank You Jesus for your Saving Grace.

Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10)

In Scripture, love, faith and obedience are tightly intertwined. They are like 3 threads in a cord and cannot be separated without destroying the cord. Abraham had faith, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness, long before he obeyed. (Rom. 4) However, true faith will always result in obedience because we realize the debt we owe to our Saviour.
We have all been redeemed, bought by the blood of Christ -- our forgiveness is solely based on His act of obedience.
Since we have received (ACCEPTED) His offer of forgiveness of sins, we become bondslaves to Christ -- and bondslaves obey!!
Believer obey in the context of LOVE.

True faith requires obedience because obedience is the proof of faith. Without obedience, faith is DEAD (James). It is conterfeit faith.

Forgiveness and obedience come together because I John 1:9 says that if we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. We can only obey if we first become justified through the sprinkling of the blood that Jesus shed on Calvary. With the forgiveness comes the cleansing--the power.

We cannot have one without the other because that is what it is all about.

I did a word study once on Ephesias 2:8 and in essence it is saying "For by grace (the power of God in my life) are we saved (freed from the bondage of sin) through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God."

God supplies the power through the Holy Spirit and Jesus has freed us from the bondage of sin through His sacrifice. It is all about God and Jesus. Otherwise we could boast and say look what I have done. This is pure self and we cannot be saved by self--our righteousness is as filthy rags...not acceptable to the Father.

Obedience is the natural behavior of one who is forgiven. After confessing our sins and repenting of them, we become obedient to Christ. We cannot have one without the other. If we choose not to become obedient we have not really accepted the forgiveness offered to us. We are saved by grace as Jesus is the only one to have lived a perfectly obedient life to His Father. And by faith in Jesus we will live in obedience and that obedience will reveal itself by works. The Spirit will move within us and our works will be a natural reflection of the Spirit. By natural I mean the new man we have become - the nature of God within us.

Q2. Why do forgiveness(sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? ........
Because if I am not forgiven for my sins(disobedience, rebellion) not listening and not following then, I cannot walk in obedience (listening and following). No acceptance of salvation. Because love for God is to obey His commandments. Because it is God's gift to me, (he gives me something I don't deserve (grace and mercy), that a cannot boast of what I have done. I cannot earn my salvation. God first moved toward me through His Son Jesus and gave me faith to believe then I respond and do the things that He has prepared for me.

Does Faith require obedience? I would say they are seperate components of our walk with Christ. Faith reflects acceptance of Jesus. Obdience may well follow on the heels of faith, with some. With others, it develops in time, increasingly through sancification...through spiritual maturity or passion. We have all probably seen the bumper sticker "I'M SAVED, NOT PERFECT"
So, my answer to the extra credit question is that faith doesn't (first)require obedience. We are saved by grace, and not by works.
The thought occurs to me that when we recieve Jesus' sacrifice we are saved from eternity in hell, and that is a gift, and the work that follows affords us an ever clearer and fuller experience of Holiness unto perfection.

To think we can have obedience without forgiveness implies that God is without mercy to those who are obedient (but as humans we cannot be perfectly obedient). To think we can have forgiveness without obedience makes a mockery of the cross. Those who ask for forgiveness must believe and those who believe, obey. To not obey Him is not to believe him. Obedience and belief are synonomous. Because we are trapped in flesh, we must overcome its' sinful desires and that takes the special power of the Holy Spirit. When we fail, we ask forgiveness and try not to do it again (repent). How can one ask for forgiveness knowing they're going to repeat the same sin again?

No one is good, not one. Our righteousness is as filthy rags. Therefore there is nothing we can do to obtain grace, lest we boast. It is only by faith that we are saved. Even the bible biggies failed. Moses murdered, David murdered, Solomon lusted and commited idolatry, etc...

Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10)

We are saved by grace--not our works, lest anyone should boast. All we do for forgiveness is believe in Him, come to Him humbly and confess our sins. He forgives us, but in turning from our sins--necessary to prove we meant our confession--we turn to Him and hear Him say "Go, serve Me by serving the least of these". Obedience is not optional. But, that is a RESULT of being saved, not a means of salvation. It proves that we have accepted His forgiveness and shows our sincerity to "Go and sin no more."

Q2. (1:2) Why do forgiveness (sprinkling) and obedience come together as a package? Why is it deceptive to think you can have one without the other? Extra credit: If true faith requires obedience, how can we say that we are saved by grace rather than works? (Ephesians 2:8-10)

We are forgiven by the work that Jesus did not by anything we have done or ever will do! When we finally realize He is touching our heart and that He called us into service to Him then and only then can we live a life pleasing to God. Then and only then because Christ is now living in us by His Holy Spirit. If we now have His Spirit we are going to want to obey Him and this can only be done when we are walking in the Spirit. Because our bodies have not been glorified we still have the old nature and there is a battle going on all the time! We have our old nature and the devil who is going about to see whom he may devour. Yes forgiveness and obedience do go together His forgiveness and our obedience I know I am not perfect but this is something we should strive for!

We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Because the Spirit lives in us when the Father looks down on us He only sees His Son Jesus and His holiness. Praise God for what He has done ( past tense ) “It Is Finished”
We need to follow Jesus example and be obedient to the Father as Jesus was, but if we fail we have an advocate Jesus the Son whom says I have paid for that sin of disobedience! This is Gods true grace! It is grace and grace alone that has saved us nothing of our selves! It is Jesus work on the cross and nothing else where by we can say we are saved. Oh how I love Jesus! All glory honor and praise goes to the Father for His mercy and grace for without grace we would all be lost forever destined to spend eternity in torment for all eternity.

Chester White

As we experience the sweetness of God's forgiveness in our lives the natural outflow will be obedience. As I encourage, enable and bless my own child I witness his obedience. If I lambast him, dicourage him and be-little him he will manifest with defiance. I love what God has done for me and I want to do His bidding because I trust Him and I love Him.

For by the sprinkling of His blood we are forgiven.
You can' t have one without the other this was the purpose.
It is through Gods' grace we are saved, through Gods mercy, for His love for us, we were given, Jesus, whom, is our atonement, our sacrifice, and our forgiveness for sin. There is no type of work any man can do to save himself, it is only through Gods' grace.

You want to be obedience once you have seem the love of God and what forgiveness means. To be truely born again is to have his present in you, with you and you knowing that. But we will fail him, over and over, and he, with his love and grace will forgive us if we truely ask for it.
God Loves You

Part 2 . For as it is stated in the Word of God: Ephesians 2: 8-9

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith- and this not from yourselves, it is a gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast"

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=7][SIZE=14] Forgiveness is the "action" and Obedience is the "effect" of that action. That is why I think they go together.

Obedience is a must for a Christian. There are times when we are not obedient and without forgiveness we would be in the pits. Obedience and following the Lord are the works required of us and we are by the grace of God allowed to be on the earth.