Daff Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? When we pray, we pray in faith. The bible says "ask believing and you shall receive". If we don't believe our prayers are going to make a difference, we may as well stop now. God has His plan, but unfortunately, the freedom of choice we have been given sometimes causes us to go the wrong way and even pray incorrectly. God does not enjoy destoying nations and we need to intercede for divine intervention to take place for people to have a change of heart. The belief that our prayers make no difference is quite simply unbelief! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warring Hands Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Q3 (a) If we have a wrong understanding then we will not be able to pray the will of God. and we will remain defeated christians ( If we believe that our prayers makes no difference to God's response we are ignorant unbelieving of the word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mygardengates Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 I believe God answers all prayers for understanding to Go the straight path. God is willing to hear what you have to say and God determines wheather it's right or wrong. God only points us in the right directions for good. It may not always feel good or look good but it's for the good. I've seen God move things that I didn't understand but at the end there was complete understanding. We all need to go there and trust in the Lord. The Lord is our "light"" our lamp to ever lasting love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mygardengates Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Our prayers make a big difference. Since God already knows what we need who we are what we are capable of as a human being. But, spiritually we are tested often to become more mature in our spiritual life. I always tell people what ever stage your in or where your in your life doesn't mean always that God wants you there. Sometimes or more often God wants to open more doors but with our spiritual life we need to listen to God more often. He talks to us all the time. We can't always feel sorry for ourselves or think we are going to move when God wants us to move. We need to seek God a lot. How would you not like to talk or seek your own earthy father or children they would feel bad well so does God. We must put him first in our life love him always. Amen!! Moses prayed for a better solution. We should always pray for something bigger if we don't like where we are. God wants us to be abundantely happy. Look above your capabilites and discover something bigger. If it fails it fails but you will not know unless you try. For example not everyone is rich but if they desire to be more richer to feel comfortable in there life to share and move other people as well God will here what you want and have to say and he will move you there. I truly believe if we ask for a much better life not only be humble in your situation but want a better life. Ask God to strengthen you and ask if its his will to bring your there for good reasons. Like me I am a single mom I make enough money just to get by I pray to God and thank him and how grateful I am for not sufferning but please my Lord (Daddy) may I have a bigger life to give more to the poor and needy and to help my children and live more prosper. There is nothing wrong with this. So Moses was very gutsy but confindent that the Lord would change his mind because he new it was for the good. Israel is still suffering suffered for 2000 years. Long suffering. But also coming together like beginning of time. We don't know what is happening what God has planned but we do know by the Gospel that God is doing everything for the good. So ask pray for the good but expect an answer that is for the good even if it doesn't feel good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sofia Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? I believe GOD answers all prayers for understanding GOD is willing to hear what we have to say to HIM if we do not receive , what we ask, is because it is not what we need Yes the LORD know what is good.and what we need . O yes our prayers make a big difference this is now we speak to our FATHER, by prayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAMA Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? A wrong understanding of determinism and predestination can keep us from a effective fervent pray if we believe that everything is already predetermine. We must bodly come to throne of grace believing that God will answer our prayers if we just have faith and believe. An effective fervent prayer can change God's minds about things. A passive (thy will be done) is a belief that my prayer will not make a difference so I pray a wimpy prayer. Patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marloes Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 If we don't believe that He wants to do what we ask Him too, we better not ask at all. Then prayer would be only some praise, a passive communication. It's like sending a christmascard to granny for the decorum - but not visiting her ever. That would be no real contact. unbelief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patience123 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Fitting together predestination and free will is SO difficult to come to terms with but I can only go to Jesus for an example. In Luke ch11 Jesus asks us to be bold and persistent in prayer, and in John ch 17 Jesus prays to God to protect his disciples from evil then prays for all believers and goes on to pray for the world. We see many examples in the Bible where earnest and persistent prayer has changed the outcome of a situation where God has shown mercy and seems to have responded to the prayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? I think that the wrong understanding of what we are determined to do, and what God has already planned for us, can keep us from those bold prayers, because we get caught up in the attitude of never really having a real relationship with God. We generally ask Him for stuff, and He provides it, meaning that everything is prearranged. However, God may have a plan for our lives, but how we live our lives determines our future. The choices we make, ultimately will change the road we are to travel, regardless of how God has planned it. We need to remember that everything that happens in our lives is to strengthen us in all ways. We need to learn how to fight! God leads us, but ultimately we have to follow. If we do not then we are not allowing His good works to take fruit in our lives. If we belief that God is a stone or a rock that cannot be moved, then how can we expect to move mountains? We need to remember the promises that He made to us. We need to believe that God loves us for individuals and that He wants us to be happy always. Yes sometimes there are trials and tribulations, storms and seasons, but they have a purpose; to teach us that we can count on God to help us. That He doesn't just want to rule our lives but to lead us into an amazing one. He does have an outline for our lives....but it is just an outline. We determine if we are going to write our life story by His own words or ours, or better yet, together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanks Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? A wrong understanding of determinism and predestination will paralyse our prayer life. We can then easily start to believe that prayer has no effect whatever, and start thinking - so why pray? This belief that prayers make no difference to God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATCH Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? If we believe that everything in our life has been foreordained, predestined, or predetermined, there is no point in praying because the circumstances cannot be changed. We will "be forced" to accept whatever comes our way. We won't even need faith. If we think our prayers make to difference, then we do not truly know God's character and unconditional love. We are defeated because of our unbelief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerneydr Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? A wrong view of God is the result of determinism. We need to understand that God is Love and Holy more then Sovereign. He was first of all Father within the Holy Trinity, not King. When we know God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seer Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seer Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Jesus has taught us to pray to "Our Father......", including, among other things our requests . He demonstratd many times in His own relatinship with God that He could ask and receive anything, including deliverance from the terrible death that He had come to undergo. He said that God would send legions of angels if He asked for it, and indeed they did come to minister to Him in the garden of Gethsemane. I presume here that He was not lying! In other words His prayers did receive their needed response from His Father. We too, by grace, are able to change the path of things with our prayers to God. Yes, there will be a wonderful Christian family, raptured or raised from the dead, because this is what God has ordained from the beginning. But I can pray for people, that they should be included in this family, and know that Father hears and honours my prayers that accord with His will that "not one should perish". Obviously there are those who will perish, and whose fate is already sealed in that manner, even though it was not God's will. Yet His overall will to have a family in Heaven will be achieved, and there is no changing that. Therefore a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response is a belief in a lie. It is simply not the Truth. It is inconsistent with scripture that the effective fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. The evidence is there many times over that God hears and answers prayers, eg when Peter was prayed out of prison. Afterthought: Perhaps God has made the world with a predetermined outcome, but He has also made us in His own image, so that we, like Him, have some individual and personal part in the determination of that ourcome. Our God is the most amazing! Please, somebody, comment on this thought! I'll look again at this forum tomorrow to see your comment. pps: God can use gutsy people, gutsy pray-ers. I agree. 'pickledilly' actually had the same thought. I like how you also recognize that a when someone doesn't believe in effective prayer, they are actually believing in a lie - it's very insightful. I'm participating in the truth project and this is so true. Isn't everything just the cosmic battle between God's truth and Satan's lies? On a tangent, I hope there's a notification option upon reply to this forum soon, or someway to retrieve replies to posts in an easier way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noksidam Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? Difficult questions. I believe He already knows the outcome of all things and that our will has to be attuned to His will; but I agree that it paralyzes prayer to a passive "Thy will be done". We are taught in the Bible "Teach me to do your will, for you are my God" (Psalm 143:10)"Yet not what I will, but what you will" (Mark 14:36)even "Your Father knows what you need before you ask him"(Matthew 6:8) but also "yet because of your shameless audacity he will surely get up and give you as much as you need" (Luke 11:5-8) Nevertheless, the belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response is unbelief because there would be no communication between God and us and it is contrary to what Jesus teaches us. Prayer is, as any form of communication, something very subtle. How much subtle must it be when the interlocutor is God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noemi Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? A wrong understanding of determination and predestination keeps us passive and unable to pray like Moses prayed. A prayer that mkes no difference to Gods response is just words blown to the wind with no hope or faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary58 Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? If we think all is decided and that "it can do no good" to pray then we don't pray with confidence and power -- and we are told to do so. And so a belief that prayers make no difference to God's response is disobedience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiKosum Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? The belief that God foreordains, predestines, or predetermines whatsoever shall happen in history. That is, God causes to come to pass everything that happens. Some branches of Christianity have a strong deterministic bent. "Que sera, sera, What will be, will be." There is no changing it. God has both foreknown and determined all things from all eternity. Everything is fixed. I understand predestination to mean that God's will cannot be thwarted. In the end, God's plans will prevail. However, we must see this in the context of God's character - merciful, gracious, compassionate and loving. There are many examples in the Bible where God changed His mind on account of His prophets prayers. Why? Because the prayers were in line with God's character. This however does not mean that God condones sin - an unrepentant heart will still bear the consequences. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusting God Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? A wrong understanding of determinism and predestination will keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed if we believe that everything is set, fixed, immutable, predetermined -- signed, sealed, and delivered. We must pray, believing that prayer can change God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostbutchosen Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? if we believe all is set in stone know matter what then how can we pray for change or some one to be healed if this was the case then prayer would be for praise only scince that sick person was predestined to die . I believe GODS will will be done. but moses prayer shows us that GODS will was done but with a different outcome. How many times do we have to open our hearts and minds to know that GOD will do whatever he can to give people the oppurtunity. to live to his accord as a father I myself have changed my punishment based on what my son said. Why then should we expect less from ourGOD who has power over all things we are to take our problems to HIM HE wants to help ask and you shall recieve. as long as your on the right path that is our sin or disbelief or doubt can block these blessings. predestination GOD is allmighty how do we know his plans HE could have many paths for us with many different outcomes. Nothing is to Hard for the LORD I believe GOD wants the best for us and we have to seek his guidence through the holy spirit. Pray with your heart that is filled with the spirit not with your tainted flesh mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estar Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 We must always pray with firm belief and assurance God hears and will answer in his time not ours . Determinism and predestination is a false teaching and we must never pray feeling he has made up his mind already as over and over again Gods people changed his mind in the bible as they were righteous people God chose to listen to . It is always best to pray as Moses did using scripture to back up our prayers .It shows god we have knowledge of his word and study it .It teaches us to be more like God. It also makes the prayer more efective .He says in the bible "His his word is lamp unto our feet" and we should use that lamp to effective praying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drunelin Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Q3a. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? If we think that everything is predetermined then there is no need to pray. We simply need to keep waking up every morning and life will play out like it is supposed to. Q3b. What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? Lack of faith. We are told repeatedly to pray and that if we believe it will happen, then it will happen p/s I don't know if this will help anyone else come to grips with pre-determinism, fore-knowledge and free will, but the closest thing I can think of (in human terms) is chess. If a master chess-player can foresee his opponents available moves and his own available moves up to 3 or 4 or more steps ahead, I'm sure our omnipotent and omniscient God can foresee all the available moves of all mankind through until the end of time. There is one big plan for overcoming evil and redeeming mankind, just as a chess player has one big goal towards victory over his opponent. There are laws of the universe (science if you will) that governs all living and non-living things, as there are rules to the moves chess pieces can make. Sure the moves we humans can make are infinite (to our human minds), but to God, infinite possibilities are nothing. So we are free to move, to sin, to obey, to live, to love and most importantly to pray and ask for intersession, as we see fit, but in His infinite understanding, God can still make his plan work around all the infinite choices that all human kind makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycin Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? I think I need to change my mind to really believe that my prayers can change God's mind. I say that I believe that prayer changes things but too often I give in to the lie that only I am changed by prayer. This attitude keeps me from truly interceding for those around me. I forgot about the miracle healings and new believers in Christ that clearly show that a righteous prayer avails much. I do not want to pray this way. I call this belief fatalism, whatever will happen happens. Instead, I want to set aside the lousy scientific American approach to prayer and learn to pray passionately with intercession with the intent to change God's mind because He is merciful, holy, and faithful. He wants to keep His promises while also relenting from His wrath when the people of God stand in the gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onerivertrail Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Jesus told us to pray and He showed us how. Prayer is a discussion with God. If all is predetermined and predestined then Moses would have known it was useless to approach God for the people. Moses and God had a relationship. This relationship was not all one sided with God being the dictator. God is a loving God and forgiving. We should remember the great prayers of the bible when we approach God with our petitions and know that the prayers of a righteous person is powerful. I believe we should approach God with great expectation of change when we pray according to His will and His promises to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PathFinder51 Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? Mankind's' problem is that we are unwilling to wrestle in prayer as did Moses. We don't believe in the power of prayer, so we pray wimpy prayers. Either we believe it and will act on it, or we are passive and unbelieving in our prayers. What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? If all is predetermined and predestined then Moses would have known it was useless to approach God for the people. I understand predestination to mean that God's will cannot be thwarted. In the end, God's plans will prevail. However, we must see this in the context of God's character - merciful, gracious, compassionate and loving. There are many examples in the Bible where God changed His mind on account of His prophets prayers. Why? Because the prayers were in line with God's character, God's will. This however does not mean that God condones sin - an unrepentant heart will still bear the consequences. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.(James 5:16)(KJV) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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