Commissioned Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? A wrong understanding of determinism and predestination can keep us from the kind of gusty prayer that Moses prayed if we believe that all things are predetermined and our prayers cannot effect a change. This however, is not true as we have been taught in this lesson. For those of us who consistently pray thy will be done, we can now pray with boldness and fervency and see God move in answer to our prayers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toshi Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Q3a: In Genesis 32, before Jacob became Israel (he struggle with God) when he wrestled with God over night, he prayer fervantly for his favor by trusting him for the blessings and the fullfilment of the promise but Jacob still resorted to his human nature in order to reconcile with his brother. Though the wreslting match ended with a draw, he still got the permanet scar of limb in his hip, nonetheless, God still blessed him whereby Israel abided by God's will by asking forgiveness from Esau. Jacob understood the trust in God by patiently waiting for the answer in his physical struggle and he finally came to realization that trusting God and be blessed by God is better than resorting to his way because there is a penalty to the struggle with God. God taught him a lesson, but I think the prayer he resorted before hand proved that he was right and God gave him the second chance. I think, God can do anything upon our sincere trust in God through our prayers. It really comes down to our faith in God for His deliverance. He is truly loving therefore, he will deliver our prayer's request. Q3b: The belief is Foreknowledge. Though I am not a Calvinist, I believe that God can determine the outcome of the future but it is important that we can reflect the end result by deeding our walk of life to the scriptural teaching and our faith in our prayers. If we trust in God, the choices we make will be patterned through the scriptural teachings, leaving our nature as secondary as to the freeness of the free will. The reflection through the Bible can only gives us the answer to our transitions of life in the life of web of relationships between God and you, you and God and you and a fellowman. All will be good in the eyes of God through the prayers. There should be no theological argument as to if or when God delivers. He does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancychua Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? God is all knowing. His word is life and we can talk to the Father by praying and whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him because He always keeps His promises and will answer our prayer when we ask in faith. God is greater than our heart. God will not ask us to pray fervently, if it made no difference. Prayer shows that we believe in Him and the effectual fervant prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esther Donald Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? If we were to believe that God predestined everything then there is no power in prayer. If we have a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination then we believe that we cannot change God's mind and action, we would not have any bold prayers like Moses. What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? Our prayers would passive and unbelieving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plethra Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? If we belive in predestination then there is absolutely no need for prayer because supposedly the outcome is is already determined and nothing you do or say will change it. A belief that our prayers don't matter is a LIE, a FALSEHOOD, a DECEIVING SPIRIT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bapyles Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 If I thought everything was predetermined, I wouldn't pray much or even feel the need to pray because, Oh well, what's going to happen will happen no matter what I pray. Prayer does change things. The fervant effective prayer of a righteous man availeth much. That's the way I see it and I know for a fact that prayer does change things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL O Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? 1) THIS WILL NOT TAKE US TO OUR KNEELS BECAUSE WE WILL HAVE IT AT THE BACK OF OUR MIND THAT WHAT BWILL BE WILL BE 2) PREDESTINATION Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? If we feel that God's will will be done regardless of our prayer and everything is predetermined, then really what is the point of the prayer other than acknowledging God's will. That would prevent any real dynamic and bold prayer. Again, what would the point? I would call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response, a belief grounded in a rigid determinism and predestination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incense Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? Not understanding who we are in God would keep from the gutsy prayer that Moses prayed. Moses understood that that God had a determine plan and destination for his life and the children of Israel. Once, you understand that your predestination is earth first and your destination is heaven for all eternity. Then this would make determinism your path to live as God would have you to live. Obey the Lord! What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? I would say a lack of faith and unbelief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathyrob Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 If all is predestined then the only prayer to pray would be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyann Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? If we dont know God's Holy Word, if we have not prayed for wisdom, knowledge and understanding of that word, we will lean into our own understanding and not God's will for our life. Therefore we won't be able to remind God of His promises for our lives and have the attitude of what ever will be will be. What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? Secularism- skeptical in regard to religion. Do not know the Lord, have not really had a relationship with Him. Pray, but don't believe prayers will be answered. The attitude of this type of person is defeatist, I call them Eeyores, always looking at the glass as half empty, and never expecting anything but the worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyann Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? If we dont know God's Holy Word, if we have not prayed for wisdom, knowledge and understanding of that word, we will lean into our own understanding and not God's will for our life. Therefore we won't be able to remind God of His promises for our lives and have the attitude of what ever will be will be. What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? Secularism- skeptical in regard to religion. Do not know the Lord, have not really had a relationship with Him. Pray, but don't believe prayers will be answered. The attitude of this type of person is defeatist, I call them Eeyores, always looking at the glass as half empty, and never expecting anything but the worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? It causes us to not believe in the power of prayer and that God might actually hear our prayers. 1John 5 says in verses,14And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 15And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. How can we pray and expect Him to answer us if we don't truly believe that prayer is heard. If we can't believe He hears us then we waste our time because we don't believe in God either. I would call a prayer that came from someone that believe their prayer makes no differance a waste of time why pray at all if you don't believe that God hears you and cares enough about you to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 A wrong understanding of predestined and determinism will cause our prayers to be ineffective. We will succomb to the idea that prayer won't change anything so why pray. Determinism is the belief that everything is set and that nothing can change what God has planned. It is kind of whatever will be and it is already set and we will just watch and see it happen. This is not evident with Moses' prayer when he prayed for mercy on the Israelites. Our supplication to God can change things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love.serve.know Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 If we think that everything is "set in stone" there is no point in asking God to change things. The Bible show instances where people of God communicated with Him and things did change. We have that example in the Bible to encourage us to communicate with Him also. "Ask and ye shall receive" - but don't ask anything outside of God's will. I think our timeline is a short span in comparison to what God knows and sees, so of course He knows what will actually happen, because He knows everything. He knows what will happen throughout all eternity - "Of Him and Through Him and to Him are all things". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iam4-1god Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? What is the use of praying if prayer won't change anything? I believe that God looks in my heart, and answers my prayers according to my heart. However, I have experienced times when I prayed for something, and then The Holy Spirit came and cleaned me up-or, made me fit to ask. Then He showed me how to ask. If I didn't think or know that God can't or won't change His mind, then I wouldn't even bother to ask. Predestination-well, I don't know how that all works, but I believe that God knows our hearts-whether we are sincere or not. I believe He knows whether we are His or we are just putting on a show. So for me, I want to make sure that my heart is right, and now I will make sure that I ask the right thing in the right way! His will, not mine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanMary Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? We will believe that everything is "fixed" and there is no point in praying anything except "Thy will be done". That kind of belief seems to me to eliminate the need to pray...which is unscriptural. We are exhorted to pray without ceasing.... What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? It is called determinism....predetermined...set in stone or predestination. "No need to pray because God knows the outcome, knows what you're going to do, so "Que sera sera" I'm so glad that isn't the case! It's true God has foreknowledge, and some things are predetermined, because of His foreknowlege, but it would be silly to exhort us to pray with no purpose....we'd be little more than preprogrammed puppets, and we're blessed with free will, and therefore our faith enters into our petitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swordwoman Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? A wrong understanding of determinism and predestination promotes apathy and ultimately a "lazy" relationship with God, if any relationship at all. I call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response "unbelief." People who don't communicate with God are out of fellowship with Him -- and if they think it doesn't matter whether they pray or not, then that would take free will completely out of the picture. Fact of the matter, we all have a free will to choose Christ...and enter into the rest. Essentially, I believe God desires a relationship with His children, just like we (as parents) desire a relationship with our children. If I had a child that did not interact with me, talk to me about their dreams, fears, struggles, life in general, I would know there was something drastically wrong with the relationship and do everything I could to reveal my love to them. I believe God does this with His children. There are those who simply choose not to...and I believe God knows who those people are -- however, I also believe He will continue to love as that is who He is...and 'ya can't change 'dat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csreeves Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? We can think that everything has already been placed in order and prayer doesn't work. Fear and dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickJW Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? If we do not correctly understand determinism and predestination, as related to God and his plan, we may develop a defeatist attitude in our prayer-life (and in our regular life as well!). As I have read elsewhere, the immutability of God refers to his overall plan for us: much like a space rocket may be sent to Mars, and may need course adjustments along the way, so God is free to make changes along the way to the fulfillment of his plans. I would call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God, in a word, incorrect. There are too many examples in Scripture that teach us otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precious Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? It will make us lazy. One will just be like Jonah. It will also make one disobedient. The bible says pray without season, if we have wrong understanding of determinism and predestination we won't have prayer points, nothing to pray about. It is like asking God to do it all at least He knows what to do, so no need to pray. It will be called disbelieve I think and if you don't believe the person is dead there is nothing to live for no hope emptiness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose B. Cruz Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? R3. A wrong understanding of determinism and predestination will even keep us away from prayer for if the God we will pray to has already determined what His answer will be no matter what or how we pray, what's the benefit? Christians must believe that with the love of the Father which His Son Jesus told us about, by persevering in prayer God will hear and answer our prayers. God knows what is in store for us but we do not and by our choices we decide our destiny. That our prayers make no difference to God's response belies the gospel, the good news that our God, our Father, loves us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one of His lambs Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? If we believe everything is predetermined without our action, then we can just spend our lives sitting in front of the television set, waiting for everything to happen. In the Word of the Lord, I see a Divine Being, who encourages His people to take action, to be doers and not couch potatoes. In Hebrews, the Word says, "He rewards those who diligently seek Him." Why would Yeshua (JESUS) tell us to ask, seek and knock if we are not supposed to actively pray? Why did Yeshua take time out to pray every morning? The enemy of our souls sure likes this type of theology! And I am not one to say that there is no predestination, but I have seen the power of prayer in my life -- it has changed many situations that were headed in a very bad direction. It has changed my life! Even though I have some great testimonies of the power of prayer, I still have to motivate myself sometimes to keep praying. A belief that our prayers make no difference == UNBELIEF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Q3. How can a wrong understanding of determinism and predestination keep us from the kind of gutsy prayer that Moses prayed? What do you call a belief that our prayers make no difference to God's response? If we don't believe in predestination and are not determined in our prayers, we can sometimes pray weak prayers; not understanding or believing that even though God knows the end from the beginning, He can change the course of events. If we believe that our prayers make no difference to God's response, then we must also believ e that He doesn't care about us as regards our welfare, our happiness, our everyday struggles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswa Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Q How can a wrong understanding of deterninism and predestination keep us from the kind of gusty prayers that moses prayed. What do you call a belief that our prayers makes no difference to God's response. The belief that our prayes makes no difference to God,s response is not right because God is faithful and he has promised us that when we call him he will answers us and show us great things. In 2 kings 20:1-5 God had send prophet Isaiah to tell Hezekiah that he was not going to recover and he was going to die. Hezekiah prayed and God changed his response and added Hezekiah 15 more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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