JanMary Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Q3. (Philemon 18-19) Paul vouches for Onesimus and puts up his money (at least in theory) to cover Onesimus's debts to Philemon? Is this wise in all cases? Paul knew Onesimus' heart...that he was truly a disciple who had repented of his sins and who desired a fresh start, restitution and forgiveness. In this and other cases like it, it's wisdom to vouch for another. (Even on the off chance of failure, I believe in second chances) But in all cases? No, I don't believe that's wisdom. A persons character can predict their actions quite often. An addict will do or say just about anything, swear on the Bible, etc. to get their next fix. Others operate under the influence of Satan/the demonic and are great deceivers who make tremendous promises in order to bargain or gain what they want, be it money, power, position.....so no, I would say most definitely not in most cases. Why does Paul do it here? Paul had seen Onesimus tears of repentance, heart of service toward him and others, love for God and desire to set things right with Philemon. I believe Paul also wanted to encourage Philemon to rise to the level of forgiveness desired in this and other situations and as a demonstration to the Church...all who would read the letter, then, today, and in the future. How does Christ vouch for us? He is our advocate with the Father, interceding for us day and night. When the accuser of the brethren, Satan, points out our sins or failures, Jesus silences him with a nail scarred hand before his face. When should we vouch for our Christian brothers and sisters? In American courts a person is innocent until proven guilty. In the Church we are bound to hear gossip or accusations, about our brothers and sisters in Christ. I believe we stand with one another and not "kill our wounded", as is our pitiful reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haar Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 Vouching for some is a way of helping him. We however have to be very cautious as even friends can disappoint us. Christ vouched for us by giving His life for our freedom/ life eternal/ restored relationship with the Father. When a brother is in need, we should prayerfully ask God to help us know what we can do do help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Jerry Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 It is not wise in all cases to put up money to cover someone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Grace Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 Is it "wise" to put up money to cover another person's debt? Well, to me it depends if you are looking at things worldly or spiritually. Is it "wise" to take a risk on my money being misused or that I may be taken advantage of? Could it be used wastefully? By a worldly standard, these would be my issues and I could say it would be unwise to offer money to anyone other than "A sure bet." Sometimes though, we won't have opportunity to "know" a person and we have to decide or discern what we would do in any particular case. If I knew for an absolute surety that I was going to give money that would be misused or wasted, I would use my God given wisdom/discernment to not give in that area. We are called/instructed to be discerning and careful. If the situation isn't quite that clear, I believe we are called and it is wise to give. By spiritual standards, it IS wise to help another financially in time of need. Even if we don't know the person and aren't sure of their best intentions, we are called to give. From experience, I know The Holy Spirit guides in all things. I help clean our church and sometimes people come in looking for money for a variety of reasons. Three times I had to make a decision on giving money because no one else was at the church to refer them to at the time. One was a young man looking for money for " milk and bread for his kids." I felt a prompting by the Holy Spirit to give all I had in my purse to him. I did and to this day, I'm not sure if it went for bread and milk, but I KNOW I was to give. Another 2 times, another man made repeated visits to the church for money and I would have given, but I didn't have a dime on me! Both times! I couldn't! Our sermon the Sunday after his last visit, was about the beggar at the Beautiful gate and how Peter said, "Silver and gold have I none, but such as I have I give thee. In the name of Jesus, rise up and walk!" I chatted with that guy on a variety of subjects and if he continues to come back, I'm inviting him to join us on Sunday. I have also given money to persons of extreme risk, but knew the Holy Spirit wanted to encourage them in a new life....so the true wisdom is in listening to what God is directing. Paul gave the promise to cover the debt Onesimus had for a three fold purpose I think. To show his trust in Onesimus and the sincerity of his conversion. To show love covers over a multitude of wrongs. For Philemon, as a reminder to cancel the debt owed and to remember he was once indebted himself and was shown mercy. And to show the most excellent way of Christ who paid our debt and canceled what we owe. He was calling all to LIVE the truth of the Gospel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisbarak Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Paul had to see Onesimus in the Holy Spirit's light. I think, if he was moved by the H.S. to help him pay his debt, that he had served Paul above and beyond what others could do for him. No, it is not always wise to vouch for others, or to cover their debts. We need to be aware of the Holy Spirit's leading in all cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiKosum Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 Q3. (Philemon 18-19) Paul vouches for Onesimus and puts up his money (at least in theory) to cover Onesimuss debts to Philemon? Is this wise in all cases? Why does Paul do it here? How does Christ vouch for us? When should we vouch for our Christian brothers and sisters? No it is not wise in all cases. Indeed the bible warns us not to be surety for friends and strangers. However, Paul vouches for Onesimus. This was really to help reconcile Onesimus with Philemon. Perhaps Paul had come to know Onesimus' heart during the time that Onesimus was with Paul. It is quite plausible that it was Paul who led Onesimus to Christ. So Paul and Onesimus had developed an intimate relationship which gave Paul the "comfort" to vouch for Onesimus. Christ vouched for us when he took our sins and nailed it to the cross with himself. Christ is risen and is seated at the right hand of God interceding for us day and night. In this manner, Christ is also vouching for us. We can vouch for our brothers/sisters after God has given us the approval through his Holy Spirit. We need to pray to God for a spirit of discernment and to hear clearly from God before we can agree to vouch for anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denlee Posted June 20, 2010 Report Share Posted June 20, 2010 Q3. (Philemon 18-19) Paul vouches for Onesimus and puts up his money (at least in theory) to cover Onesimus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csreeves Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Q3. (Philemon 18-19) Paul vouches for Onesimus and puts up his money (at least in theory) to cover Onesimus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioned Posted June 29, 2010 Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 Q3. (Philemon 18-19) Paul vouches for Onesimus and puts up his money (at least in theory) to cover Onesimus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaiden Rochelle Posted June 29, 2010 Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 Q3. (Philemon 18-19) Paul vouches for Onesimus and puts up his money (at least in theory) to cover Onesimus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saja3 Posted August 26, 2010 Report Share Posted August 26, 2010 Paul was standing up for Onesimus who had gained his confidence in the name of Jesus. It may not be wise in all cases; all is too broad to speculate, but certainly in cases where you are lead by the Lord. Christ vouched for us when He died on the cross. We should vouch for our Christian brothers and sisters when we are lead by Christ to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramon Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Answer: I think Paul is trying his best really to reconcile Onesimus to Philemon,to such extent that even His Personal endebtedness,Paul wants to take ownership(verse 18(amplified)- 18And if he has done you any wrong in any way or owes anything [to you], charge that to my account)..again a message of Christ Jesus reconciling ALL man to the Father by taking our place in the cross(2 Corinthians 5:21- For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him). We cant pay for our sins,as well as Onesimus cant pay his debt,to whatever he personally owe to Philemon.So we need a Saviour to pay for us,just like how Paul vouced for Onesimus.In our culture today,there are few people if not who will do the act,like Paul does to Onesimus.Yes,welcome to Christ,we will say to Newly born again believer,but whatever you owe to tax,to bank you need to settle it yourself.. Paul act of vouching for his Son(He converted Onesimus)is an act of PURE LOVE.He said likewise to Philemon,to accept Onesimus,just like He will accept Paul.(verse 12(amplified)- I am sending him back to you in [a]his own person, [and it is like sending] my very heart. Finally Jesus has vouch for us,by being the Curse,and taking all the Punishment for our Sinfulness,and giving us total redemption,that we might received the fullness of The Fathers blessings through his promises,IN HIS WORD(Galatians 3:13-14(KJV)- Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith) We should also vouch for our brothers and sisters in Christ,by treating them as our own Family,not only treating them,good inside the Church,but even outside the 4 corners of the Church.Through fellowship and interaction,helping in their needs,financially and spiritually,until they can stand in their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelOnLine Posted September 19, 2010 Report Share Posted September 19, 2010 Q3. (Philemon 18-19) Paul vouches for Onesimus and puts up his money (at least in theory) to cover Onesimus's debts to Philemon. Is this wise in all cases? No, it wouldn't be wise in all cases. Why does Paul do it here? Because Onesimus was his friend and he loved him. How does Christ vouch for us? Christ paid our debt and vouched for us on the Cross. When should we vouch for our Christian brothers and sisters? We were told to love our neighbor as ourselves. Even though we shouldn't vouch for everyone, we should take a chance and vouch for our Christian brothers and sisters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highohfaith Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Q3. (Philemon 18-19) Paul vouches for Onesimus and puts up his money (at least in theory) to cover Onesimuss debts to Philemon? Is this wise in all cases? Why does Paul do it here? How does Christ vouch for us? When should we vouch for our Christian brothers and sisters? Paul vouches for Onesimus so he may have a new life in Christ for his friend and son in Christ. He love Onesimus with all his heart, brotherly Christian love, Godly love! It may not be wise in all cases but we must 'stick our necks out' in hopes of reconciling and restoring someone to God who may not deserve it. We should ALWAYS vouch for our Christina brothers and sisters is Christ, this is our duty as fellow Christians..to love one another! To serve and help one another! Even if it means taking risk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leihaynes Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Q3. (Philemon 18-19) Paul vouches for Onesimus and puts up his money (at least in theory) to cover Onesimus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetmom Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Vouching for others can be hard. I am someone who often fears being taken advantage of. It is of course easier to give financially to the truly poor or those who are doing mission work than it is to give to a regular ol' brother or sister in Christ back home. We have been burned in the past, and I know we will continue to be burned. We must be wise in our vouching to the fullest extent possible, yet we also need to remember that our money is not our own, but God's. Sometimes we need to vouch, even if we might be taking a risk. If we have fully assessed a situation and prayed about it, we should vouch even if we're not 100% sure, for "love always protects, always trusts, always hopes." If the vouching turns out to be a failure, we can know that we did our part and that God will bless our efforts anyway. Again, this is not easy, but Christ's vouching for us was a trillion times harder, and look how often we take advantage of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifee Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 3a)Paul knows Onesimus has changed & on that basis puts up virtual security for him. b)Even friends can disappoint us,biblically we’re asked to be good stewards.&evaluate carefully.Vouching when we know someone has changed can be a way of giving people a new start, an opportunity for restoration & forgiveness C)In Christ we are all one, we are a new creation. Paul knows Philemon owed Paul for leading him to Christ. d) Christ vouches for us before God’s throne, &has given everything to set us free. D)We need to remember where we have come from & show each other forgiveness from the heart, not looking down on each other, we are all equal in Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinstonY Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Q3. (Philemon 18-19) Paul vouches for Onesimus and puts up his money (at least in theory) to cover Onesimus�s debts to Philemon? Is this wise in all cases? Why does Paul do it here? How does Christ vouch for us? When should we vouch for our Christian brothers and sisters? It was , it is all about Love. The notes have Luther saying "This epistle," he wrote, "shows a right noble lovely example of Christian love.... Even as Christ did for us with God the Father, thus also does St. Paul for Onesimus with Philemon ..." No, it is not wise to vouch for someone but it is about love. If we love someone we must take chances for them. We are to love our neighbours as our selves so love demands the risk. The Lord risked it all for us for the sake of Love. we too must comply as did Paul. This is a great example of Christian love and we are to follow this example. Why else has this epistle been saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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