Q2. Offensive Baptism

[jmlhopeful]

Q2. (Matthew 3:5-10; Luke 7:30) How would John's baptism have offended a Jew's national pride?

To be baptize would mean that they too were sinners and in need of a savior.

Who welcomed John's baptism?

All the people including the tax collectors.

Who resisted it?

The Pharisees, who separated themselves from anything non-Jewish and carefully followed both the old Testament laws and the oral traditions handed down through the centuries.

The Sadducees, who believed the Pentateuch alone (Genesis-Deuteronomy) to be God's Word.

Why?

Even though both groups disliked each other very much, they both opposed Jesus.

[Lori Kaye]

Q2. (Matthew 3:5-10; Luke 7:30) How would John

[Lion of Grace]

John the Baptist called all people to confess their sins and to be cleansed from their sins through Baptism.

The Jews believed that they were God's chosen people and were set apart from others such as Gentiles. They resorted to following the law as given by Moses (and then some) and relied on animal sacrifice to atone for sin. (Ritual) There was a certain amount of confession in this practice for the people, but the Jewish leaders had gone so far as to see themselves righteous in themselves and in their knowledge of the law and in works. The general people weren't even aware of all the teachings. They relied on the priests to instruct them. The priests and the leaders though, had added to or taken away from so much of the truth, they were really only in for power, pride and prestige. They controlled the people.

John the Baptist addressed ALL of the people in confession and forgiveness of sin through baptism so we can see that this would be a threat to the leadership of the day. They didn't want Gentiles thinking they could have any part in Spirituality in the same way as the Jews, but they also didn't want "regular" people thinking they didn't need them as an elite spiritual power.

The ordinary uneducated person, seeking God would have welcomed His message. To be forgiven of sin and to be considered forgiven as is, would have been a joy indeed! As it is for us! No longer under the thumb of corrupt leadership and encouraged to be in relationship with God would have been a great freedom. But for those who had the threat of losing their grip on power and prestige, it would not have been embraced so readily.

Others not too keen on his message were the governmental ruling powers of the day. As John foretold the coming of the Messiah, it was believed that this Messiah would come and have victory in a military coup and restore the line of David to the throne. This was a great fear among the kings enthroned already and the extermination of any threat there played a role in not only John's death, but in the deaths of the infants 2 and under when news of the birth of the Messiah came to fruition and carried over in tension through out Jesus' life and right up to His crucifixion.

[JanMary]

Q2. (Matthew 3:5-10; Luke 7:30) How would John's baptism have offended a Jew's national pride?

They were sons of Abraham, and believed that obeying The Law of Moses kept them in good standing with God. John's baptism indicated that they needed to repent and be cleansed just like the Gentile's who came to Jesus for Salvation. It anulled keeping the law as the way to be in relationship with God. Jesus came to bring a better Covenant, and repentence, baptism, humility and embracing the Spirit of the Law in Christ was

repugnant to many.

Who welcomed John's baptism?

Jesus, for One. Then the humble and those willing to seek forgiveness and salvation.

Who resisted it? Why?

The Jewish religious leaders whose piety was of their own making through works of the flesh. The more honored they were in the Synagogue, the less likely they would humble themselves in this way. Ultimately they wanted to kill Jesus, because they loved their position!

[drCarter]

Q2. (Matthew 3:5-10; Luke 7:30) How would John

[chillsey1]

Well, as John wasn't a Jew, He performed a practice that was from the Judaism ritual, and the Pharisees didn't want to be baptized by a non jew cause of this fact. The people, Jews and non Jews came however to be baptized focusing on the one reason why they were being baptize.

[janel]

2 John's baptism have offended a Jew's national pride by calling them to humility

and repentance. Since they claimed Abraham to be their father the refused to

admit they were sinners.

It is the poor, the oppressed and mostly the Gentiles who welcome John's baptism.

The Jews especially the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the teachers of the law, the

learned, those of high authorities and the higher class of people who resisted

it. They have considered themselves as God's chosen people and are always perfect

in the sight of men and God.

[alexandria]

Q2. (Matthew 3:5-10; Luke 7:30) How would John

[Leonard C]

John

[Moses 4]

Q2. (Matthew 3:5-10; Luke 7:30) How would John

[pickledilly]

Baptism in open "unclean" waters in a public setting would have been a direct insult to the traditions of Jewish ritual baths. It would also have been identification with Gentiles that the Jewish religious leaders were unwilling to make. They completely rejected John's call to repentance because of their pride (in both their personal piety and their superior positions of authority) and because of their blinding lack of discernment of Scripture. It seems the common, less-educated people of the Jewish faith were much more open to this message of preparation for the coming revealing of God's glory and His kingdom. They came from everywhere, responding with repentance and baptism in the Jordan River.

[pickledilly]

quote name='Decann' date='25 September 2010 - 11:13 PM

I would be interested in your verses relevant to "and with fire."

John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: (Luk 3:16)

John himself made the clear distinction here in this verse of the difference in what he was doing and what Christ would later do. John was calling people to personally repent of sin with public demonstration by water baptism in preparation for the coming of Messiah, who would baptize the inner man with His own Spirit. Acts 2:3 records the fulfillment of that spiritual baptism by the Holy Spirit, who came like tongues of fire on the first believers. Hebrews 12:29 says God is a consuming fire. I think here, John was speaking of His character as "a consuming fire" in reference to the Holy Spirit's coming to immerse/consume believers in spiritual baptism.

So, John's water baptism was meant to point people to and prepare people for the future inner baptism that Christ would bring. (Fire represents other things, too. One of the Spirit's purposes is to refine us into the character of Christ...hence the burning away of the nature of the flesh by the "refiner's fire". And works/deeds of believers will be ultimately tested by fire to expose what was done through the worthless combustible flesh and what was done through the enduring power of the Spirit.)

Just my thoughts...hope that helps?

[paulcrf]

Q2. (Matthew 3:5-10; Luke 7:30) How would John

[haar]

John's baptism would have offended Jew's national pride because the baptism was like that for a gentile siner being coverted to Judaism. But since the Jews believed that being descendants of Abraham, they were not sinners, the Pharisees and experts of the law therefor rejected the type of baptism.

However, Jesus welcome John's baptism and even directed that it should be done to new convers in his Great Commision Mathew chapter 28.

[Trusting God]

I am not completely sure what the Jew

[kiwidenis]

Q2. (Matthew 3:5-10; Luke 7:30) How would John

[Johnguitars]

Q2. (Matthew 3:5-10; Luke 7:30) How would John

[Jeff Newsom]

Q2

a. Jews relied on their ancestral connection to Abraham to save them; John

[RitaW]

John's Message and water baptism was not accepted by the Jewish leaders, because it was not their tradition.

Those who heard John preach ,repented of their sins, looking forward and believing that they needed to prepare to enter the kingdom of God, were baptized. And Jesus was baptized to be identified with sinners He came to save.

[Bonnie Nelson]

Q2. (Matthew 3:5-10; Luke 7:30) How would John's baptism have offended a Jew's national pride? Who welcomed John's baptism? Who resisted it? Why?

The Saducees and Pharisees still looked to the law. When Jesus was baptized, it was a sign of grace and love. The religious sects eyes were clouded; they could not see the relevance. They could not see that Jesus was the Messiah. Jesus welcomed John's baptism as did others...fishermen, tax collectors....regular people.

[sahala p.s.]

Q2. (Matthew 3:5-10; Luke 7:30) How would John

[FORWARD FELEX]

Q2. (Matthew 3:5-10; Luke 7:30) How would John

[jon burke]

Q2. (Matthew 3:5-10; Luke 7:30) How would John's baptism have offended a Jew's national pride? Who welcomed John's baptism? Who resisted it? Why?

http://www.joyfulheart.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=994

John baptised publicly. Jesus welcomed John

[Summertime7]

Q2. (Matthew 3:5-10; Luke 7:30) How would John’s baptism have offended a Jew’s national pride? Who welcomed John’s baptism? Who resisted it? Why?

a) It offended them, because they were too prideful to admit they were sinners.

The people who welcomed John's baptism were people from Judea, Jerusalem, and the whole region of the Jordan.

c) The Pharisees and experts in the law rejected the baptism, because again they thought they were holy and of Abraham's seed, which put them above the rest.

[charisbarak]

John's baptism would have offended the Jewish people because they would probably have thought John had assumed that they were ceremonially unclean.

I think Gentiles would have been very open to John's baptism, perhaps some Jews who were not leaders. The leaders would have been offended & proud.